LinuxCNC is Poorly Documented

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04 Jul 2018 08:37 #113398 by InMyDarkestHour

tommylight wrote:

ozzyrob wrote: Can we have a link (with menu & context) to the launch a nuke hal component ?

Vigorously working on a functional implementation of it, using ketchup and mustard as ingredients! :)


If you want to try Vegemite as well, I can supply a jar gratis. :evil:

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05 Jul 2018 03:06 - 05 Jul 2018 03:24 #113453 by BrendaEM
FYI, I have made no demands of anyone here. If I allow myself to be manipulated into tipping my hand....

I have indeed asked for help for myself in configuring my machine, while trying to learn enough so that I should be more self-sufficient, and perhaps someday helpful.

I have asked for one change, that might affect safety.

I have asked for three other upstream changes which I strongly feel will have positive results downstream.
  • I asked for NativeCam to included on the next distribution.
  • I have asked for the dock to integrated on the command bar, as a default optimization for touchscreen interfaces such Gmoccapy, smaller monitors, and yes, the interface I am designing. If it matters: I'd rather the next LinuxCNC distro out long before my interface is designed and programmed
  • I have asked for better documentation, presented in a more straightforward, organized way. An esthetic improvement would be nice, as well. It is my hope that as the documentation, its organization, and even its presentation becomes improved, then more developers will offer to help work on LinuxCNC. It will become even better. There will be, in percentage, fewer configuration issues, causing less of a burden on the people in the forums.

Some people on the forums have more than 2,000 "Thank You's."

Because the documentation dealing with practical application and configuration of LinuxCNC is so lacking, for the average user the forums may be a better resource than the documentation. There are plenty of threads that refer to other threads.

To some people, I might seem a bit unfriendly, but I would want to be one of the people who tell the emperor that he has no clothes, the documentation needs a lot of work AND a new web design, and in the case of NativeCAM, support those who support LinuxCNC.

I am sorry, but in my opinion, the current documentation is not up for the challenge of teaching users how to configure LinuxCNC. In my opinion, the organization and presentation will turn off prospective developers and supporters--unless they love to fix documentation and make websites.
Last edit: 05 Jul 2018 03:24 by BrendaEM.

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05 Jul 2018 03:47 #113454 by InMyDarkestHour
I don't know which "Linux Community" you have been playing with but I think fickle is about as far as you get from the truth.

If it was fickle Linux\GNU systems wouldn't have a 30% to almost 40% share of web servers.

If it was fickle people would not have worked so hard to bring us to where we are now.

And in no way or form would Patrick Volkerding be Slackware's "Benevolent Dictator for Life", if there was fickleness.

I fear that line is a Redmond conspiracy. ;)

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05 Jul 2018 05:07 #113455 by tommylight

ozzyrob wrote:
If it was fickle Linux\GNU systems wouldn't have a 30% to almost 40% share of web servers.


I wonder, when did you last see any web server running anything but Linux?
Web server market as well as mainframes and supercomputers are dominated by Linux to the rate of over 95% any way you look at it.

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05 Jul 2018 06:52 #113458 by InMyDarkestHour
I did a quick search and the figures given where 67% running on a Unix or Unix-like platform. It was estimated at least half where Linux tho there was an estimation that figure could be higher. ( I was being a little conservative in case a red devil was lurking )

Just had another look....it's so damn hard to get 2 different sites to agree on figures. Anyways it's large.

Just another thought as well, Linux has made a rather large ingress into the home router market....hence the amount of custom firmwares.

Let's not forget the old Linksys NSLU-2 and the number of SBCs around as well.

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05 Jul 2018 12:52 #113471 by BigJohnT

BrendaEM wrote: I have asked for better documentation, presented in a more straightforward, organized way. An esthetic improvement would be nice, as well. It is my hope that as the documentation, its organization, and even its presentation becomes improved, then more developers will offer to help work on LinuxCNC.


Please feel free to step up to the plate and start contributing to LinuxCNC. LinuxCNC is 100% volunteers, I look forward to you volunteering to take on the task.

JT
The following user(s) said Thank You: tommylight

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05 Jul 2018 16:16 - 05 Jul 2018 17:18 #113479 by BrendaEM
BigJohnT,

I feel bad that no one even took the time to comment on the links I took the time to post in this thread.
I have also been researching alternative documentation solutions.

This forum, looks and works great. It is well-organized. People can find information. The manner in which information is presented is consistent and understandable. If the documentation was this, I would have never taken the time to engage in this thread--especially since I've been having a problem with a member here--who continues to drag my topics into the ground.

I am sorry to go off-topic, but this is the nature of how I am stepping up to the plate:
forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/34572-a-wides...nder-style-interface

It's not done yet, but I've been working more than 20 hours a week on trying to design an interface that has the best aspects of Axis, Gmoccappy, a touch of Touchy, Razzy, and even a bit of Craftsman--all in the style of Blender. There are still a few more menus to go, but it's getting there. If you go through the thread, you can see how it has evolved. Someone is already working on implementing the design before it's even done : )



I am sorry if my opinion and my message about the documentation is not a positive one, and I cannot help but notice the effect the state of the documentation has.

I guess I could have chosen a more diplomatic title for this thread, and yet, that is my opinion to express, and express in hopes that it might lead someone to improve the documentation. Yes, I likely will write something, but as I have stated, I am pretty new at .hal. I am having a tough time learning it from the documentation.

In my opinion, the documentation system/method needs a serious overhaul. I am sorry, but once land on a dead-end webpage with no menu to tell you where you are or how to get back, there is a problem.
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Last edit: 05 Jul 2018 17:18 by BrendaEM.

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05 Jul 2018 17:29 #113484 by InMyDarkestHour
Don't be sorry for an opinion, that's silly.

Don't accuse me of bringing your topics to the ground, for the most part they generate a lot of interest.

I'm surprised you haven't commented on the discussion regarding using Linux Mint as a basis. There is a working proof of concept open for comment. It may not get anywhere but it's a discussion of sorts.

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05 Jul 2018 18:21 - 05 Jul 2018 18:38 #113488 by BrendaEM
OT, responding, sorry...

I didn't up to now, comment on the Linux Mint--because this is a thread on documentation? Nudge, nudge : )

(Linux Mint Cinnamon is currently my favorite distro interface. Though like many people, I do worry about it's Ubuntu underpinnings because Ubuntu is not the same company it once was. LMDE, the Debian version would be a safe environment. Yet, Debian will continue to drag it's heels for their desktop, which is not a good thing, like it is for servers. I generally see new Linux as better Linux.

I think that there are things to consider, such as requirements, as many people use older machines, and latency with the real-time kernel. I wish Linux's real-time mode can be switched on with a command and a reboot. I tend not to be rash with other people's time. I couldn't and wouldn't push Mint/Cinnamon unless I have researched enough to be sure that there would not be latency issues. I suspect that other people who have experience could comment on that.

Though, the only thing I have against XFCE is the lower dock, as mentioned because its extra, dunzel. Though XFCE is lightweight. I worry that XFCE, um...may...not have a bright progressive future with updates. As for LinuxCNC, I should think that while XFCE's mouse is cute, brainshare is better. I feel that brainshare, initiative, and effort are life for an open source project.)
Last edit: 05 Jul 2018 18:38 by BrendaEM.

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05 Jul 2018 19:53 #113503 by InMyDarkestHour
The discussion I was referring to is:
forum.linuxcnc.org/18-computer/34823-a-f...-few-ideas-popped-up

As for the realtime comment:
You can have a realtime and non-realtime kernel installed and choose which one at boot via grub.

Regarding Mint:
Mint seems to be a common and easy distro for first time users, MATE seems to be a popular desktop environment. There is also a 50 page thread about installing LCNC on Mint.

LMDE:
Quoted from Mint themselves:
LMDE is less mainstream than Linux Mint, it has a much smaller user base, it is not compatible with PPAs, and it lacks a few features. That makes it a bit harder to use and harder to find help for, so it is not recommended for novice users.

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