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Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper

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9 years 5 months ago #93262 by big wave
Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper was created by big wave
Hi everybody. Bit of a noob here.

I got a second-hand Sherline 5400 mill with a Xylotex XS-3525/8S-4 controller and unmarked stepper motors. The calibration is off by about 50% [test travel for 1" only goes .5"]. The setup in Stepconf is using 200 Steps/Revolution, and 2 microsteps on each axis. I verified the lead screw thread pitch on the Sherline at 20 tpi with a direct 1:1 connection.
When I try testing the motor at 400 Steps/Rev and 2-Microsteps the Z-Axis works but X-stalls and generally complains. It seems like it's not going a full 1" but that may be an error in my observation while the axis is in motion- I'll do a more accurate measurement tomorrow.

I'm using the "Other" settings for the controller type and have set the timing to 1000, 1000, 200, 200 for Step Time, Step Space Direction Hold and Direction Setup, respectively. That seems to match the data on this site and the datasheet.

A few questions to the community:

Should the number of micro steps change the number of radians/degrees traversed if the steps per revolution is constant [e.g. 200 steps/rev set with (2, 4, or 8 micro steps) should be the same degrees traversed]? - I think not since micro steps should be incremental between a full step -- again, i 'm a bit of a noob wrt Steppers in general so please forgive my ignorance.

Also, how do you jog in single-step increments to test movement in absolute steps? -- I set the TPI on the Z-Axis to one and used the "Test this axis" GUI to "Run" with a "Test Area" of +-1" thinking that should traverse one full revolution if the calibration is correct. It seems close to one full rev when i set SPI to 400.

Any recommendations for setting up accurately given this setup with an unknown motor?

Thanks,
Dave

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9 years 5 months ago #93267 by big wave
Replied by big wave on topic Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper
Update: after setting the max velocity to .2 from the default 1 its, things seems to smooth out and run accurately.
200 x 8 micro steps velocity .2 IPS acceleration 5 ip s2. Much more than .2 and the motors howl .. stalling. but I'm getting different behavior for the X versus Z -- Z axis seems a bit more tolerant at .4 ips. I'm still not getting why the micro steps are changing how may degrees of travel the motor is turning.

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9 years 5 months ago #93270 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper
Can you please post your hal and ini file so we can have a look?

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9 years 5 months ago #93289 by big wave
Replied by big wave on topic Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper
Thanks,
Here are the files. I've got the IPS set at .2 and this seems to be smooth.
Code:
# Generated by stepconf 1.1 at Tue May 16 09:25:09 2017 # If you make changes to this file, they will be # overwritten when you run stepconf again loadrt trivkins loadrt [EMCMOT]EMCMOT base_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]BASE_PERIOD servo_period_nsec=[EMCMOT]SERVO_PERIOD num_joints=[TRAJ]AXES loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378 out" setp parport.0.reset-time 1000 loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0 loadrt pwmgen output_type=1 addf parport.0.read base-thread addf stepgen.make-pulses base-thread addf pwmgen.make-pulses base-thread addf parport.0.write base-thread addf parport.0.reset base-thread addf stepgen.capture-position servo-thread addf motion-command-handler servo-thread addf motion-controller servo-thread addf stepgen.update-freq servo-thread addf pwmgen.update servo-thread net spindle-cmd-rpm => pwmgen.0.value net spindle-on <= motion.spindle-on => pwmgen.0.enable net spindle-pwm <= pwmgen.0.pwm setp pwmgen.0.pwm-freq 100.0 setp pwmgen.0.scale 1166.66666667 setp pwmgen.0.offset 0.114285714286 setp pwmgen.0.dither-pwm true net spindle-cmd-rpm <= motion.spindle-speed-out net spindle-cmd-rpm-abs <= motion.spindle-speed-out-abs net spindle-cmd-rps <= motion.spindle-speed-out-rps net spindle-cmd-rps-abs <= motion.spindle-speed-out-rps-abs net spindle-at-speed => motion.spindle-at-speed net spindle-cw <= motion.spindle-forward net estop-out => parport.0.pin-01-out net xstep => parport.0.pin-02-out setp parport.0.pin-02-out-reset 1 net xdir => parport.0.pin-03-out net ystep => parport.0.pin-04-out setp parport.0.pin-04-out-reset 1 net ydir => parport.0.pin-05-out net zstep => parport.0.pin-06-out setp parport.0.pin-06-out-reset 1 net zdir => parport.0.pin-07-out net astep => parport.0.pin-08-out setp parport.0.pin-08-out-reset 1 net adir => parport.0.pin-09-out net spindle-cw => parport.0.pin-14-out net spindle-pwm => parport.0.pin-16-out net xenable => parport.0.pin-17-out setp stepgen.0.position-scale [AXIS_0]SCALE setp stepgen.0.steplen 1 setp stepgen.0.stepspace 0 setp stepgen.0.dirhold 21200 setp stepgen.0.dirsetup 21200 setp stepgen.0.maxaccel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL net xpos-cmd axis.0.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.0.position-cmd net xpos-fb stepgen.0.position-fb => axis.0.motor-pos-fb net xstep <= stepgen.0.step net xdir <= stepgen.0.dir net xenable axis.0.amp-enable-out => stepgen.0.enable setp stepgen.1.position-scale [AXIS_1]SCALE setp stepgen.1.steplen 1 setp stepgen.1.stepspace 0 setp stepgen.1.dirhold 21200 setp stepgen.1.dirsetup 21200 setp stepgen.1.maxaccel [AXIS_1]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL net ypos-cmd axis.1.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.1.position-cmd net ypos-fb stepgen.1.position-fb => axis.1.motor-pos-fb net ystep <= stepgen.1.step net ydir <= stepgen.1.dir net yenable axis.1.amp-enable-out => stepgen.1.enable setp stepgen.2.position-scale [AXIS_2]SCALE setp stepgen.2.steplen 1 setp stepgen.2.stepspace 0 setp stepgen.2.dirhold 21200 setp stepgen.2.dirsetup 21200 setp stepgen.2.maxaccel [AXIS_2]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL net zpos-cmd axis.2.motor-pos-cmd => stepgen.2.position-cmd net zpos-fb stepgen.2.position-fb => axis.2.motor-pos-fb net zstep <= stepgen.2.step net zdir <= stepgen.2.dir net zenable axis.2.amp-enable-out => stepgen.2.enable net estop-out <= iocontrol.0.user-enable-out net estop-out => iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in net tool-number <= iocontrol.0.tool-prep-number net tool-change-loopback iocontrol.0.tool-change => iocontrol.0.tool-changed net tool-prepare-loopback iocontrol.0.tool-prepare => iocontrol.0.tool-prepared dave@gmuncher:~/Desktop/sherline_Xylotex3525_8S4$
Code:
# Generated by stepconf 1.1 at Tue May 16 09:25:09 2017 # If you make changes to this file, they will be # overwritten when you run stepconf again [EMC] MACHINE = sherline_Xylotex3525_8S4 DEBUG = 0 [DISPLAY] DISPLAY = axis EDITOR = gedit POSITION_OFFSET = RELATIVE POSITION_FEEDBACK = ACTUAL ARCDIVISION = 64 GRIDS = 10mm 20mm 50mm 100mm 1in 2in 5in 10in MAX_FEED_OVERRIDE = 1.2 MIN_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 0.5 MAX_SPINDLE_OVERRIDE = 1.2 DEFAULT_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.10 MIN_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0 MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY = 0.20 INTRO_GRAPHIC = linuxcnc.gif INTRO_TIME = 5 PROGRAM_PREFIX = /home/dave/linuxcnc/nc_files INCREMENTS = .1in .05in .01in .005in .001in .0005in .0001in PYVCP = custompanel.xml [FILTER] PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .png,.gif,.jpg Greyscale Depth Image PROGRAM_EXTENSION = .py Python Script png = image-to-gcode gif = image-to-gcode jpg = image-to-gcode py = python [TASK] TASK = milltask CYCLE_TIME = 0.010 [RS274NGC] PARAMETER_FILE = linuxcnc.var [EMCMOT] EMCMOT = motmod COMM_TIMEOUT = 1.0 COMM_WAIT = 0.010 BASE_PERIOD = 100000 SERVO_PERIOD = 1000000 [HAL] HALUI = halui HALFILE = sherline_Xylotex3525_8S4.hal HALFILE = custom.hal POSTGUI_HALFILE = custom_postgui.hal [HALUI] # add halui MDI commands here (max 64) [TRAJ] AXES = 3 COORDINATES = X Y Z LINEAR_UNITS = inch ANGULAR_UNITS = degree CYCLE_TIME = 0.010 DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 0.10 MAX_VELOCITY = 0.20 [EMCIO] EMCIO = io CYCLE_TIME = 0.100 TOOL_TABLE = tool.tbl [AXIS_0] TYPE = LINEAR HOME = 0.0 MAX_VELOCITY = 0.2 MAX_ACCELERATION = 15.0 STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 18.75 SCALE = 32000.0 FERROR = 0.05 MIN_FERROR = 0.01 MIN_LIMIT = -0.01 MAX_LIMIT = 9.0 HOME_OFFSET = 0.0 [AXIS_1] TYPE = LINEAR HOME = 0.0 MAX_VELOCITY = 0.2 MAX_ACCELERATION = 5.0 STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 6.25 SCALE = 32000.0 FERROR = 0.05 MIN_FERROR = 0.01 MIN_LIMIT = -0.01 MAX_LIMIT = 4.0 HOME_OFFSET = 0.0 [AXIS_2] TYPE = LINEAR HOME = 0.0 MAX_VELOCITY = 0.2 MAX_ACCELERATION = 5.0 STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 6.25 SCALE = 32000.0 FERROR = 0.05 MIN_FERROR = 0.01 MIN_LIMIT = -9.0 MAX_LIMIT = 0.01 HOME_OFFSET = 0.0 dave@gmuncher:~/linuxcnc/configs/sherline_Xylotex3525_8S4$

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9 years 5 months ago #93293 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper
At a glance it all looks good. What drives? Xylotex or something else? Check the motor current on the drives, if they are nema 17 up to 1Amp should be ok, some can do more. Check if the motors get warm after 5 to 10 minutes of work or siting idle but locked, they should just start to get warm in that time frame. Can you turn the motors or screws by hand? Try that with motors off to check for binding, and with motors on to see how much torque they have at stand stil.
Regards,
Tom

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9 years 5 months ago #93325 by big wave
Replied by big wave on topic Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper

tommylight wrote: At a glance it all looks good. What drives? Xylotex or something else? Check the motor current on the drives, if they are nema 17 up to 1Amp should be ok, some can do more. Check if the motors get warm after 5 to 10 minutes of work or siting idle but locked, they should just start to get warm in that time frame. Can you turn the motors or screws by hand? Try that with motors off to check for binding, and with motors on to see how much torque they have at stand stil.
Regards,
Tom


Thanks Tom!. Things seem to be well behaved now. Last night, I was able to home the thing and dry run the Linux Logo program.
I had to reverse the Y and Z direction pins to the so the tool path directions aligned to the displayed coordinate system. At .2IPS everything seems to be working. I'm not sure what the steppers are.

-D

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9 years 5 months ago #93411 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper
The only real unknowns with mystery steppers is the wiring, the steps per rev (but anything other than 200 would be very unusual) and the current rating.

They turn, so the wiring is right, they go the right distance, so steps per rev is right, that just leaves current. You can increase the current setting until they get hot, then stop. Steppers get hotest when moving slowly (actually when stopped, but some drives reduce current when stopped). If the steppers don't actually burn you, then they are OK. But you might want to run a bit below that level if you don't need the performance.

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9 years 5 months ago #93441 by big wave
Replied by big wave on topic Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper
Thanks Andy,

Everything seems to be working but the feed rate seems quite slow or else the motors stall. I have the speed set at .2 ips. Lead screw on the Sherline is 20 turns/inch. Does that sound normal? The stepper motors look pretty beefy like they could handle more - but I cannot find any specs for these. The Xilotex controller specifies a max output of 2.5A at 35 volts max.

Attachment not found



-Dave

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9 years 5 months ago #93478 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper

big wave wrote: Everything seems to be working but the feed rate seems quite slow or else the motors stall. I have the speed set at .2 ips. Lead screw on the Sherline is 20 turns/inch.


So, the motors stall at 240 rpm? That is slightly low. (I had a machine that would only run to 300rpm). What supply voltage are you using for the drives?
You seem to have 4-wire steppers, so there is no scope for swapping to parallel wiring.

The slow speed is mainly due to the fine pitch of the screws, I think. Ballscrew machines tend to use 5 TPI or thereabouts.

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9 years 5 months ago #93483 by big wave
Replied by big wave on topic Need Help Setting up: Sherline Mill + XS-3525/8S-4 + Mystery Stepper

andypugh wrote:

big wave wrote: Everything seems to be working but the feed rate seems quite slow or else the motors stall. I have the speed set at .2 ips. Lead screw on the Sherline is 20 turns/inch.


So, the motors stall at 240 rpm? That is slightly low. (I had a machine that would only run to 300rpm). What supply voltage are you using for the drives?
You seem to have 4-wire steppers, so there is no scope for swapping to parallel wiring.

The slow speed is mainly due to the fine pitch of the screws, I think. Ballscrew machines tend to use 5 TPI or thereabouts.


Not sure, I will check later this eve. I got the controller already built with a power supply and assumed if was fine. I've seen a couple youtube videos showing a Sherline moving quite a bit faster than that.

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