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Hal gearchange for beginner
2 years 11 months ago #285537
by greg23_78
Hal gearchange for beginner was created by greg23_78
I would need your help to understand the programme to change speed according to the set point requested.
I am more at ease with graphical programming than with lines of code, so I have tried to translate the andypugh code to understand it better. Below is the andypugh code
Here is what I tried to transcribe.
My problem is that I can't understand the connection between the spindle-output signal and the hy-vfd.speed signal because one manages the speed change and the other the pid command. .
Do they have a connection that I don't know about or do these two signals have a different function?
I am more at ease with graphical programming than with lines of code, so I have tried to translate the andypugh code to understand it better. Below is the andypugh code
Code:
loadusr -W hy_vfd -d /dev/ttyUSB0
loadrt gearchange
addf gearchange.0 servo-thread
setp gearchange.0.max-low 500
setp gearchange.0.high-ratio 1
setp gearchange.0.low-ratio 3
setp gearchange.0.brake-enable 0
setp pid.s.Pgain [SPINDLE_9]P
setp pid.s.Igain [SPINDLE_9]I
setp pid.s.Dgain [SPINDLE_9]D
setp pid.s.bias [SPINDLE_9]BIAS
setp pid.s.FF0 [SPINDLE_9]FF0
setp pid.s.FF1 [SPINDLE_9]FF1
setp pid.s.FF2 [SPINDLE_9]FF2
setp pid.s.deadband [SPINDLE_9]DEADBAND
setp pid.s.maxoutput [SPINDLE_9]MAX_OUTPUT
setp pid.s.error-previous-target true
setp pid.s.maxerror .0005
net spindle-index-enable <=> pid.s.index-enable
net spindle-enable => pid.s.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm => pid.s.command
net spindle-vel-fb-rpm => pid.s.feedback
net spindle-output <= pid.s.output
# ---Encoder feedback signals/setup---
net spindle-revs <= hm2_5i24.0.resolver.04.position
net spindle-vel-fb-rps <= hm2_5i24.0.resolver.04.velocity
net spindle-index-enable <=> hm2_5i24.0.resolver.04.index-enable
# ---setup spindle control signals---
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps <= motion.spindle-speed-out-rps
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs <= motion.spindle-speed-out-rps-abs
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm <= motion.spindle-speed-out
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs <= motion.spindle-speed-out-abs
net spindle-enable <= motion.spindle-on
net spindle-cw <= motion.spindle-forward
net spindle-ccw <= motion.spindle-reverse
net spindle-brake <= motion.spindle-brake
net spindle-revs => motion.spindle-revs
net spindle-at-speed => motion.spindle-at-speed
net spindle-vel-fb-rps => motion.spindle-speed-in
net spindle-index-enable <=> motion.spindle-index-enable
# ---Connect the VFD---
net spindle-at-speed hy_vfd.spindle-at-speed
net machine.on.delayed hy_vfd.enable
net spindle-enable hy_vfd.spindle-on gearchange.0.spindle-on
net spindle-cw hy_vfd.spindle-forward
net spindle-ccw hy_vfd.spindle-reverse
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs gearchange.0.speed-command
net manual-low gearchange.0.manual-low <=
net manual-high gearchange.0.manual-high <=
net motor-speed gearchange.0.motor-speed => hy_vfd.speed-command
net low-gear gearchange.0.low-gear => hm2_7i84.008a.output-11
net high-gear gearchange.0.high-gear => hm2_7i84.008a.output-10
net brake gearchange.0.brake => hm2_7i84.008a.output-12
Here is what I tried to transcribe.
Attachment not found
My problem is that I can't understand the connection between the spindle-output signal and the hy-vfd.speed signal because one manages the speed change and the other the pid command. .
Do they have a connection that I don't know about or do these two signals have a different function?
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2 years 11 months ago #285555
by blazini36
Replied by blazini36 on topic Hal gearchange for beginner
You don't have a connection between the spindle-output signal and the hy-vfd.speed signal, not in your hal file or that diagram. I'm not sure what the intentions are, maybe controlling the VFD over RS485 doesn't work well with the PID? Do you want to use the PID for the Spindle?Since your PID is fed by spindle-vel-cmd-rpm, that means it will get a negative value to reverse. spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs is feeding your gearchange, that signal does not go negative. I assume by this the VFD always takes a positive value for the speed and some separate binary command to reverse.
If the VFD needs the to be feed by an always-positive number use tha "abs" component after the "spindle-output" signal. Then remove the spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs signal and put the signal off the "abs" component in it's place to connect the PID to gearchange.0.speed-command.
You might want to do something to switch PID parameters depending on what gear you are in. I setup a gearchange on a servo spindle years ago before the gearchange component was available. It's not too bad if your encoder is on your spindle. If your encoder is on the motor like mine then you have to scale that feedback as well. I've got mux's, scales, and gates all over my spindle section.
If the VFD needs the to be feed by an always-positive number use tha "abs" component after the "spindle-output" signal. Then remove the spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs signal and put the signal off the "abs" component in it's place to connect the PID to gearchange.0.speed-command.
You might want to do something to switch PID parameters depending on what gear you are in. I setup a gearchange on a servo spindle years ago before the gearchange component was available. It's not too bad if your encoder is on your spindle. If your encoder is on the motor like mine then you have to scale that feedback as well. I've got mux's, scales, and gates all over my spindle section.
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2 years 11 months ago #285642
by greg23_78
Replied by greg23_78 on topic Hal gearchange for beginner
thank you blazini for your feedback,
i think i have the same machine setup as you. the VFD 0-10V will control a servo spindle (japanese spindle) with an integer encoder in the spindle.
my intention for the machine
1) to run my VFD in open loop (I understand that tuning a spindle is tricky)
2) Orient my spindle to change tool (with encoder or proximity sensor) the simplest for the moment being a beginner.
3)classic ladder for the tool change system
4) after some experience with linuxcnc go to closed loop
for your spindle, do you use mux and gates components for the orientation of your spindle (tool change) or for the rotation of the spindle ?
I have modified the diagram according to your feedback to recover only positive values. I know that in open loop I don't need PID but I would like to prepare for the servo control afterwards.
Can spindle-out work if PID.S.enable is false?
i think i have the same machine setup as you. the VFD 0-10V will control a servo spindle (japanese spindle) with an integer encoder in the spindle.
my intention for the machine
1) to run my VFD in open loop (I understand that tuning a spindle is tricky)
2) Orient my spindle to change tool (with encoder or proximity sensor) the simplest for the moment being a beginner.
3)classic ladder for the tool change system
4) after some experience with linuxcnc go to closed loop
for your spindle, do you use mux and gates components for the orientation of your spindle (tool change) or for the rotation of the spindle ?
I have modified the diagram according to your feedback to recover only positive values. I know that in open loop I don't need PID but I would like to prepare for the servo control afterwards.
Attachment not found
Can spindle-out work if PID.S.enable is false?
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2 years 11 months ago #285649
by blazini36
Tuning the PID for a spindle seems like it would be tricky and maybe it is sometimes but Servo drives run their own internal PID. I'd always intended to mux the LinuxCNC PID settings to switch for a gearchange but just to get it running I never connected the LinuxCNC PID. The spindle has always ran fine so I never bothered. If you're using an AC induction motor that has a rotor with some mass, tuning the PID should not be difficult. My servo has low inertia so it would be affected much more from the shock of cutting air and then entering a cut servo drives themselves respond much quicker than VFDs (typically) so it's not really a problem.
Replied by blazini36 on topic Hal gearchange for beginner
Mine is quite different. I have an AC servo belt driving the spindle, the encoder is the motor so I have to scale the feedback and command to effect the spindle. I control the servo with step/direction which puts the drive in position mode vs speed mode if I were using 0-10vthank you blazini for your feedback,
i think i have the same machine setup as you. the VFD 0-10V will control a servo spindle (japanese spindle) with an integer encoder in the spindle.
I don't do any spindle orientation because I don't have a toolchanger. I probably wouldn't bother if I did since none of my tools would need to be oriented but I could if I really wanted to. I do have a proximity switch on my spindle so LinuxCNC gets an index directly from the spindle for rigid tapping. All the Mux's and stuff basically do what your gearchange component does, it wasn't available back then. I also have to "gearchange" the position feedback since the estimated position of the spindle in a non 1:1 gear will be different from the servo's encoder feedback. If you did run in position mode you could just use multiple gearchange components to scale the position as well, not just the speed command.for your spindle, do you use mux and gates components for the orientation of your spindle (tool change) or for the rotation of the spindle ?
Tuning the PID for a spindle seems like it would be tricky and maybe it is sometimes but Servo drives run their own internal PID. I'd always intended to mux the LinuxCNC PID settings to switch for a gearchange but just to get it running I never connected the LinuxCNC PID. The spindle has always ran fine so I never bothered. If you're using an AC induction motor that has a rotor with some mass, tuning the PID should not be difficult. My servo has low inertia so it would be affected much more from the shock of cutting air and then entering a cut servo drives themselves respond much quicker than VFDs (typically) so it's not really a problem.
I'm not sure, according to the docs:pid.N.enable bit inWhen true, enables the PID calculations. When false, output is zero, and all internal integrators, etc, are reset.In which case no. Off the top of my head I'm not sure if that's the case but you can test this by setting it all up with the PID and toggling the enable bit, if the output is 0 it's not going to work but if the output is just a passthrough for the input then yeah. If the output is 0 from disable you can just leave the PID enabled and feed all of the PID parameters with a muxes. Instead of toggling the PID enable, you would toggle the mux select bits. If you set one mux input to the desired PID value, then set the other to 0 toggling the select bit will either pass the value or 0 to the PID parameter input. If the parameter input is 0 it is null so if you set the P,I,D to 0 it should just pass through the input.Can spindle-out work if PID.S.enable is false?
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2 years 11 months ago #286095
by greg23_78
Replied by greg23_78 on topic Hal gearchange for beginner
my spindle system also has belts like the attached photo.
I would like to know how you have configured the vfd and pid parameters of your spindle, can you share your config?.
with my experience on hobby cnc, you have to set the vfd according to the motor rotation frequency/speed, with a servomotor do you have to follow this rule? because i have no indication on my servomotor.
Is the PID configuration identical to the PID Tuning procedure like my axes?
I would like to know how you have configured the vfd and pid parameters of your spindle, can you share your config?.
with my experience on hobby cnc, you have to set the vfd according to the motor rotation frequency/speed, with a servomotor do you have to follow this rule? because i have no indication on my servomotor.
Attachment not found
Is the PID configuration identical to the PID Tuning procedure like my axes?
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2 years 11 months ago #286164
by blazini36
Replied by blazini36 on topic Hal gearchange for beginner
Like I said above, I run an AC servo, not a VFD and I do not use a PID for the spindle in LinuxCNC. Did you try to configure and run this?my spindle system also has belts like the attached photo.
I would like to know how you have configured the vfd and pid parameters of your spindle, can you share your config?.
with my experience on hobby cnc, you have to set the vfd according to the motor rotation frequency/speed, with a servomotor do you have to follow this rule? because i have no indication on my servomotor.
Attachment not found
Is the PID configuration identical to the PID Tuning procedure like my axes?
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2 years 11 months ago #286470
by greg23_78
Replied by greg23_78 on topic Hal gearchange for beginner
I'm sorry but I'm having trouble understanding your configuration. I haven't tested it yet. I wanted to finish wiring my encoder or buy a tachometer for the time being to get feedback on the speed of rotation with a given frequency to configure the min and max frequencies of my drive.
but i've tried to get the gearchange to work but i'm having problems declaring variables or pins. below is my hal and ini
et le fichier gearchange.comp de andypugh
I get the following error message : parameter or pin "gearchange.0.max-low" not found
"gearchange.0.high-ratio"
"gearchange.0.low-ratio"
"gearchange.0.brake-enable "
what do I need to add to declare these parameters?
but i've tried to get the gearchange to work but i'm having problems declaring variables or pins. below is my hal and ini
Code:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
INI
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
P = 0.0
I = 0.0
D = 0.0
FF0 = 1.0
FF1 = 0.0
FF2 = 0.0
BIAS = 0.0
DEADBAND = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT = 3000.0
ENCODER_SCALE = 1024.0
OUTPUT_SCALE = 1500
OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = 0
OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 1500
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAL
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
loadrt abs count=1
loadrt gearchange
addf abs.0 servo-thread
addf gearchange.0 servo-thread
setp gearchange.0.max-low 400
setp gearchange.0.high-ratio 1
setp gearchange.0.low-ratio 2
setp gearchange.0.brake-enable 0
#*******************
# SPINDLE
#*******************
setp pid.s.Pgain [SPINDLE_0]P
setp pid.s.Igain [SPINDLE_0]I
setp pid.s.Dgain [SPINDLE_0]D
setp pid.s.bias [SPINDLE_0]BIAS
setp pid.s.FF0 [SPINDLE_0]FF0
setp pid.s.FF1 [SPINDLE_0]FF1
setp pid.s.FF2 [SPINDLE_0]FF2
setp pid.s.deadband [SPINDLE_0]DEADBAND
setp pid.s.maxoutput [SPINDLE_0]MAX_OUTPUT
setp pid.s.error-previous-target true
net spindle-index-enable <=> pid.s.index-enable
net spindle-enable => pid.s.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm => pid.s.command
net spindle-vel-fb-rpm => pid.s.feedback
net abs.0.in <= pid.s.output
net positive-only-spindle-speed-cmd <= abs.0.out
# ---PWM Generator signals/setup---
setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-scalemax [SPINDLE_0]OUTPUT_SCALE
setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-minlim [SPINDLE_0]OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT
setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-maxlim [SPINDLE_0]OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT
# ---Encoder feedback signals/setup---
setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.counter-mode 0
setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.filter 1
setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.index-invert 0
setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.index-mask 0
setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.index-mask-invert 0
setp hm2_5i25.0.encoder.05.scale [SPINDLE_0]ENCODER_SCALE
net spindle-revs <= hm2_5i24.0.resolver.05.position
net spindle-vel-fb-rps <= hm2_5i24.0.resolver.05.velocity
net spindle-index-enable <=> hm2_5i24.0.resolver.05.index-enable
# ---setup spindle control signals---
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps <= spindle.0.speed-out-rps
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs <= spindle.0.speed-out-rps-abs
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm <= spindle.0.speed-out
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs <= spindle.0.speed-out-abs
net spindle-enable <= spindle.0.spindle-on
net spindle-cw <= spindle.0.spindle-forward
net spindle-ccw <= spindle.0.spindle-reverse
net spindle-brake <= spindle.0.spindle-brake
net spindle-revs => spindle.0.spindle-revs
net spindle-at-speed => spindle.0.spindle-at-speed
net spindle-vel-fb-rps => spindle.0.spindle-speed-in
net spindle-index-enable <=> spindle.0.spindle-index-enable
# ---Connect the VFD---
net positive-only-spindle-speed-cmd => gearchange.0.speed-command
net motor-speed gearchange.0.motor-speed => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5
net spindle-enable => gearchange.0.spindle-on => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena
net spindle-cw => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-10
net spindle-ccw => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-09
net low-gear gearchange.0.low-gear => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-11
net high-gear gearchange.0.high-gear => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-12
net brake gearchange.0.brake => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.0.output-13
#net manual-low gearchange.0.manual-low <=
#net manual-high gearchange.0.manual-high <=
#net spindle-at-speed
et le fichier gearchange.comp de andypugh
Code:
component gearchange "A component to choose spindle gears according to spindle speed";
pin in float speed-command;
pin in bit spindle-on;
pin in bit manual-low;
pin in bit manual-high;
pin in bit brake-enable;
pin out float motor-speed;
pin out bit low-gear;
pin out bit high-gear;
pin out bit brake;
param rw float low-ratio=3;
param rw float high-ratio=1;
param rw float max-low = 500;
author "andy pugh";
license "GPL";
function _;
;;
FUNCTION(_){
static int old_M3;
if (spindle_on) {
if (!old_M3){ // spindle off to on transition
if (manual_high) {
high_gear = 1;
low_gear = 0;
brake = 0;
}
else if (manual_low){
high_gear = 0;
low_gear = 1;
brake = 0;
} else if (speed_command <= max_low){
high_gear = 0;
low_gear = 1;
brake = 0;
} else {
high_gear = 1;
low_gear = 0;
brake = 0;
}
}
} else { //spindle off
high_gear = 0;
low_gear = 0;
brake = brake_enable;
}
old_M3 = spindle_on;
if (high_gear){
motor_speed = speed_command * high_ratio;
} else if (low_gear){
motor_speed = speed_command * low_ratio;
}
}
I get the following error message : parameter or pin "gearchange.0.max-low" not found
"gearchange.0.high-ratio"
"gearchange.0.low-ratio"
"gearchange.0.brake-enable "
what do I need to add to declare these parameters?
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2 years 11 months ago #286524
by Aciera
Replied by Aciera on topic Hal gearchange for beginner
Try removing those lines from your hal, start the configuration and check if the pins are created using 'hal show'. If the pins are indeed created then you may have to retype the lines in your hal file manually as we had cased where copy/pasting created errors because of non-standard hyphen-minus characters.
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2 years 11 months ago #286638
by greg23_78
Replied by greg23_78 on topic Hal gearchange for beginner
thanks for the feedback but the problem was that I hadn't overwritten the gearchange.comp file with the command
I have a question about programming on the HAL file.
I've had several errors with the abs component. Why are these program lines is wrong?
I succeeded using the code below but how could I have made my code above work?
Code:
sudo halcompile --install gearchange.comp
I have a question about programming on the HAL file.
I've had several errors with the abs component. Why are these program lines is wrong?
Code:
loardt abs count=1
addf abs.0 servo-thread
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm <= spindle.0.speed-out
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm => pid.s.command
net abs.0.in <= pid.s.output
net positive-only-spindle-speed-cmd <= abs.0.out
net positive-only-spindle-speed-cmd => gearchange.0.speed-command
I succeeded using the code below but how could I have made my code above work?
Code:
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs <= spindle.0.speed-out-abs
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs => pid.s.command
net spindle-output <= pid.s.output
net spindle-output => gearchange.0.speed-command
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2 years 11 months ago #286665
by Aciera
Replied by Aciera on topic Hal gearchange for beginner
The most obvious error is the misspelling of 'loadrt'.
If that is not it then it would help a lot to know what the actual error was.
If that is not it then it would help a lot to know what the actual error was.
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