servo recomendation WHN 11
23 Mar 2018 19:43 #107767
by pawel77
servo recomendation WHN 11 was created by pawel77
hello to everybody,
I am thinking about retrofiting horizontal borer old WHN 11, mainly because I want to get rid off all the coupling and mechanics that is in the machine.
what do you think about that?
could you recomend servo with a driver or stepper?
thanks and regards
I am thinking about retrofiting horizontal borer old WHN 11, mainly because I want to get rid off all the coupling and mechanics that is in the machine.
what do you think about that?
could you recomend servo with a driver or stepper?
thanks and regards
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24 Mar 2018 03:44 #107777
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic servo recomendation WHN 11
How big is the machine? Do you have any feel for what sort of torque and speed you require to move the axes?
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24 Mar 2018 22:01 #107785
by pawel77
Replied by pawel77 on topic servo recomendation WHN 11
hello andy,
the mechanic, that has disassembled the machine and now should assemble it (seems not be very happy about it) says that there is motor in front of the table that drive all 3 axes + rotation of the table. Next to the motor is a gear box and coupling to transmit the torque from motor to leadscrews, they are trapezoidal on X Y (approx 80mm diameter and 12mm pitch) and ball on Z.
this motor looks like induction 2-3kW, the only plate that I found on the motor i attach. There is encoder mounted on the motor.
The machine TOS WHN11 used to be programmable in 70 and 80ties but eventually worked in manual mode. It was quite popular in Eastern Europe.
According to documentation it weights 27t, x travel 1600mm, y 1250mm, z 1000mm and was produced in 1973.
I do not have feeling how much torque is needed to move the axes, and speed is not so important.
the mechanic, that has disassembled the machine and now should assemble it (seems not be very happy about it) says that there is motor in front of the table that drive all 3 axes + rotation of the table. Next to the motor is a gear box and coupling to transmit the torque from motor to leadscrews, they are trapezoidal on X Y (approx 80mm diameter and 12mm pitch) and ball on Z.
this motor looks like induction 2-3kW, the only plate that I found on the motor i attach. There is encoder mounted on the motor.
The machine TOS WHN11 used to be programmable in 70 and 80ties but eventually worked in manual mode. It was quite popular in Eastern Europe.
According to documentation it weights 27t, x travel 1600mm, y 1250mm, z 1000mm and was produced in 1973.
I do not have feeling how much torque is needed to move the axes, and speed is not so important.
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25 Mar 2018 14:12 #107814
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic servo recomendation WHN 11
Well, the first thing to do is to change it to a 1-motor-per axis setup so that simultaneous motion is possible,
A modern servo with the same power rating will be much smaller. There are many of them on sites like Aliexpress, here is an example:
www.aliexpress.com/item/3-8KW-Servo-Moto...ake/32637792047.html
Though that is not a specific recommendation.
You could try finding similarly sized motors and drives on eBay, but it is likely to be more trouble to get matching parts.
It is probably worth trying to work out what torque it takes to turn the screws. You also might want to price-up changing the screws to ballscrews.
A modern servo with the same power rating will be much smaller. There are many of them on sites like Aliexpress, here is an example:
www.aliexpress.com/item/3-8KW-Servo-Moto...ake/32637792047.html
Though that is not a specific recommendation.
You could try finding similarly sized motors and drives on eBay, but it is likely to be more trouble to get matching parts.
It is probably worth trying to work out what torque it takes to turn the screws. You also might want to price-up changing the screws to ballscrews.
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25 Mar 2018 16:29 #107826
by pawel77
Replied by pawel77 on topic servo recomendation WHN 11
Ok thanks.
If I take this challange I will post further in this topic.
If I take this challange I will post further in this topic.
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23 Jul 2018 06:33 #114685
by pawel77
Replied by pawel77 on topic servo recomendation WHN 11
i wonder if it is possible to do a retrofit with single servo motor, without much changing the mechanics. just replacing the motor that is there.
it means it will be possible to drive only one axis at a time and linuxcnc would control electric coupler that turn on and off each axis.
what do you think about it, do you see limitations for that?
i have not found such retrofit on this forum.
it means it will be possible to drive only one axis at a time and linuxcnc would control electric coupler that turn on and off each axis.
what do you think about it, do you see limitations for that?
i have not found such retrofit on this forum.
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23 Jul 2018 20:34 #114720
by vre
Replied by vre on topic servo recomendation WHN 11
@Pawel77
I have also a knee milling machine with trapezoidal screws that has 1 motor that moves all axis XYZ each axis has a linear encoder scale installed.
The coupling to each axis is done mechanically with an actuator so only one axis can be moved each time.
This machine has heindenhain tnc 135 controller(not working) but i think to change it to linuxcnc.
Can linuxcnc control a machine like this ?
I have also a knee milling machine with trapezoidal screws that has 1 motor that moves all axis XYZ each axis has a linear encoder scale installed.
The coupling to each axis is done mechanically with an actuator so only one axis can be moved each time.
This machine has heindenhain tnc 135 controller(not working) but i think to change it to linuxcnc.
Can linuxcnc control a machine like this ?
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24 Jul 2018 06:26 #114730
by pawel77
Replied by pawel77 on topic servo recomendation WHN 11
hello vre,
I do not see any reasons why this machine shouldnt be controlled by linuxcnc, but better to consult more experianced users than me and I want too to consult this topic in order not to be very supprised at the end of my retrofit.
I think I saw the cabinet of your machine in your post and there are not so many ralays. just identify which is controlling which axis and hook them with linuxcnc.
otherwise it is perfect machine for the retrofit you do not even need to buy a servo motor for that or do any mechanical adaptation.
I do not see any reasons why this machine shouldnt be controlled by linuxcnc, but better to consult more experianced users than me and I want too to consult this topic in order not to be very supprised at the end of my retrofit.
I think I saw the cabinet of your machine in your post and there are not so many ralays. just identify which is controlling which axis and hook them with linuxcnc.
otherwise it is perfect machine for the retrofit you do not even need to buy a servo motor for that or do any mechanical adaptation.
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24 Jul 2018 13:08 #114748
by andypugh
Well, the main problem would be that you can only move one axis at a time, losing most of the advantaged of CNC.
I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done. In effect every axis would become a "locking indexer" style axis.
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/ini-co...s__lt_num_gt_section
You would use the various "unlock" HAL pins to engage each axis one at a time.
I think it would be important to disable the PID controllers for each axis when they are unconnected to prevent integral wind-up surprises when the axis is engaged. But this all seems simple enough in HAL.
Replied by andypugh on topic servo recomendation WHN 11
i wonder if it is possible to do a retrofit with single servo motor, without much changing the mechanics. just replacing the motor that is there.
it means it will be possible to drive only one axis at a time and linuxcnc would control electric coupler that turn on and off each axis.
what do you think about it, do you see limitations for that?
i have not found such retrofit on this forum.
Well, the main problem would be that you can only move one axis at a time, losing most of the advantaged of CNC.
I don't see any reason why it couldn't be done. In effect every axis would become a "locking indexer" style axis.
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/ini-co...s__lt_num_gt_section
You would use the various "unlock" HAL pins to engage each axis one at a time.
I think it would be important to disable the PID controllers for each axis when they are unconnected to prevent integral wind-up surprises when the axis is engaged. But this all seems simple enough in HAL.
The following user(s) said Thank You: pawel77
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24 Jul 2018 21:12 - 24 Jul 2018 21:12 #114768
by OT-CNC
I think it will be impossible to to do pockets /circular/helical interpolation outside of the center of rotation on your rotary table.
Does this type of mill have manual handwheels that attach to the end of each axis to move the table in neutral? If so, can you mount your servo motors there?
Replied by OT-CNC on topic servo recomendation WHN 11
what do you think about it, do you see limitations for that?
I think it will be impossible to to do pockets /circular/helical interpolation outside of the center of rotation on your rotary table.
Does this type of mill have manual handwheels that attach to the end of each axis to move the table in neutral? If so, can you mount your servo motors there?
Last edit: 24 Jul 2018 21:12 by OT-CNC. Reason: spelling
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