New Project
28 Mar 2011 10:48 #8186
by HTRasmus
New Project was created by HTRasmus
Hello To All
After searching through the forum and the hardware requirements guide
I see that many of the motherboards and graphics card that are listed as known to work with emc2 is out of date and can not be bought anymore
I am going to make a new project and I want the precision as the most important factor of this future machine.
at start 4 Axis with servo controlled positioning system, Glass ruler and in the future maybe "BLUM analogue touch probe"
I am the distributor in Denmark of some servo drives and I would like to use these products, so I guess I would need some products like
7i33 Servo Interface
5i22 FPGA-PCI-Karte
Or should I choose different. I see that mesa also have some isolated I/O cards.?
what about cards for integrating touch probe? I have some general experience with cnc machinery and I have good business partners who has 20 years of experience with the mechanical side and alignment touch probe systems and and measurement
Is it absolutely necessary to use AGP slot for the graphics card to get latency as low as possible?
I am looking at buying a setup like this
AMD Phenom2 Quad 965 3.4GHz AM3 S-940
ASUS M4A77TD PRO DDR3 S-AM3
4GB DDR3 1333MHz ram
1024MB XFX ATI HD5670 775M Silent DDR5 PCI-E
120 GB SATA2 HDD
does anyone has experience with a setup similar to this or can recommend another setup?
Thanks in advance
Kind regards Rasmus
After searching through the forum and the hardware requirements guide
I see that many of the motherboards and graphics card that are listed as known to work with emc2 is out of date and can not be bought anymore
I am going to make a new project and I want the precision as the most important factor of this future machine.
at start 4 Axis with servo controlled positioning system, Glass ruler and in the future maybe "BLUM analogue touch probe"
I am the distributor in Denmark of some servo drives and I would like to use these products, so I guess I would need some products like
7i33 Servo Interface
5i22 FPGA-PCI-Karte
Or should I choose different. I see that mesa also have some isolated I/O cards.?
what about cards for integrating touch probe? I have some general experience with cnc machinery and I have good business partners who has 20 years of experience with the mechanical side and alignment touch probe systems and and measurement
Is it absolutely necessary to use AGP slot for the graphics card to get latency as low as possible?
I am looking at buying a setup like this
AMD Phenom2 Quad 965 3.4GHz AM3 S-940
ASUS M4A77TD PRO DDR3 S-AM3
4GB DDR3 1333MHz ram
1024MB XFX ATI HD5670 775M Silent DDR5 PCI-E
120 GB SATA2 HDD
does anyone has experience with a setup similar to this or can recommend another setup?
Thanks in advance
Kind regards Rasmus
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28 Mar 2011 11:39 #8192
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:New Project
I think you are massively over-speccing the PC. EMC2 has very modest requirements.
The EMC2 machine I am running with is:
Intel D510MO motherboard, onboard graphics, 80W PicoPSU and an 8GB solid state drive, 1GB RAM.
I actually do EMC2 development work on this machine.
The _most_ important thing for EMC2 is good realtime performance. I suggest booting any machine you are thinking of using from the LiveCD and doing a latency test while torturing it. Many high-spec machines have terrible latency problems because they are _too_ clever with their power management and interrupt handling.
I like the mini-itx atom boards because they can run fanless ticked away inside the machine case. There are some with a 12V DC jack on the board which are even more convenient.
The EMC2 machine I am running with is:
Intel D510MO motherboard, onboard graphics, 80W PicoPSU and an 8GB solid state drive, 1GB RAM.
I actually do EMC2 development work on this machine.
The _most_ important thing for EMC2 is good realtime performance. I suggest booting any machine you are thinking of using from the LiveCD and doing a latency test while torturing it. Many high-spec machines have terrible latency problems because they are _too_ clever with their power management and interrupt handling.
I like the mini-itx atom boards because they can run fanless ticked away inside the machine case. There are some with a 12V DC jack on the board which are even more convenient.
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28 Mar 2011 12:25 #8196
by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:New Project
I have a couple of the D510MO's and that's all you need for EMC.
My Hardinge conversion used a 5i20 a 7i33TA and a couple of 7i37TA's for I/O.
Is there some reason to want to use a glass ruler instead of encoders? As I recall folks converting glass scale machines had to do something to convert the glass scale info to encoder like signals...
The EMC touch probe input is a digital input. I'm sure someone smarter than me could comment on how you might use an analog touch probe...
John
My Hardinge conversion used a 5i20 a 7i33TA and a couple of 7i37TA's for I/O.
Is there some reason to want to use a glass ruler instead of encoders? As I recall folks converting glass scale machines had to do something to convert the glass scale info to encoder like signals...
The EMC touch probe input is a digital input. I'm sure someone smarter than me could comment on how you might use an analog touch probe...
John
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28 Mar 2011 17:22 #8207
by HTRasmus
Replied by HTRasmus on topic Re:New Project
Thanks for the feedback..
I Have done dozens of different advanced software programming but never something like this.. regarding the over spec of pc I was thinking that money should not be an issue. when it comes to the pc since that is really not the most expensive part.
should you avoid pci graphic cards?
what about pci express and pci 2.0/2.1
if you look at many German and Swiss built machinery you have a better precision by having your glass ruler as a reference and encoder for positioning. as far as I know, this is to gain precision. (but correct me if i am wrong.
I just cant wait to get started with this project. I really love linux and I really love machinery :D
I Have done dozens of different advanced software programming but never something like this.. regarding the over spec of pc I was thinking that money should not be an issue. when it comes to the pc since that is really not the most expensive part.
should you avoid pci graphic cards?
what about pci express and pci 2.0/2.1
if you look at many German and Swiss built machinery you have a better precision by having your glass ruler as a reference and encoder for positioning. as far as I know, this is to gain precision. (but correct me if i am wrong.
I just cant wait to get started with this project. I really love linux and I really love machinery :D
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28 Mar 2011 18:00 #8211
by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:New Project
I've got a couple of machines with PCI graphics cards... some work better than others and AFAIK the less expensive cards work the best. If you have the chance just run the latency test for a while before you decide on a computer.
John
John
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28 Mar 2011 20:11 #8217
by HTRasmus
Replied by HTRasmus on topic Re:New Project
I will keep that in mind.. I just read something about that if using agp port for graphic cards, the performance would be better on the pci bus.
I am looking at testing all this software during a period of time. so I need to buy a pc for this purpose, I just want to take the best solution and I do not have the possibility to run latency test before I buy a pc..
but I think I get the point.. I might just buy one see if it works. if it does not.. well ill buy another one.. I have been searching for motherboards in the list of hardware that works was just wondering if anyone had an updated list..
John, how are these D510MO working? and what Processor graphics etc are you using with these boards? I was thinking if I could get an idea for a setup
I am looking at testing all this software during a period of time. so I need to buy a pc for this purpose, I just want to take the best solution and I do not have the possibility to run latency test before I buy a pc..
but I think I get the point.. I might just buy one see if it works. if it does not.. well ill buy another one.. I have been searching for motherboards in the list of hardware that works was just wondering if anyone had an updated list..
John, how are these D510MO working? and what Processor graphics etc are you using with these boards? I was thinking if I could get an idea for a setup
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28 Mar 2011 20:44 #8225
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:New Project
I have a D510MO too. It works very nicely for EMC2 (just about the lowest latency numbers of any reported system) and at $75 it's cheap.
We are all using the onboard graphics, as far as I am aware (there is only one PCI slot, after all)
We are all using the onboard graphics, as far as I am aware (there is only one PCI slot, after all)
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28 Mar 2011 20:46 #8226
by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:New Project
The D510MO works fine and I simply installed from the LiveCD so I have no clue as to what graphics drivers are being used. I just plugged everything in with a cheap monitor (analog only) , installed and off I went.
John
John
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31 Mar 2011 08:27 #8314
by HTRasmus
Replied by HTRasmus on topic Re:New Project
Okay I might have to look into this board.. but how do you guys do it with only 1 PCI Slot?
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31 Mar 2011 09:18 #8316
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:New Project
HTRasmus wrote:
You can make a perfectly good CNC machine with only the parallel port (EMC2 supports at least 4 parallel-port connected interfaces the best are probably the Pico PPMC: www.pico-systems.com/PPMC.html (I wish he had a prettier card cage in that picture) and the Mesa 7i43 (www.mesanet.com/ and follow the "Anything IO FPGA cards" link).
I run a combination lathe/mill with a 7i43 and have 12 or so unused lines even with 4 axes, 2 spindles and all the interlocks.
Mesa also make PCI cards. The 5i22, for example, gives you 96 IO lines from a single PCI slot (most people use the cheaper 72 IO 5i20 or 5i23). If that is not enough IO then each header on the boards can control 8x 7i64 cards, which would max you out at 768 outputs and 768 inputs plus 64 analogue inputs with a 5i22. Pete has talked of making splitters to bypass this limitation.
How much IO do you need?
That is not to say that some people don't end up using multiple 5i23 cards, but I think that is because they want to use more than 3 different daughter card variants. (You can do this, incidentally, with a single card if you don't need all the channels of each board and are willing to make up a special ribbon cable)
how do you guys do it with only 1 PCI Slot?
You can make a perfectly good CNC machine with only the parallel port (EMC2 supports at least 4 parallel-port connected interfaces the best are probably the Pico PPMC: www.pico-systems.com/PPMC.html (I wish he had a prettier card cage in that picture) and the Mesa 7i43 (www.mesanet.com/ and follow the "Anything IO FPGA cards" link).
I run a combination lathe/mill with a 7i43 and have 12 or so unused lines even with 4 axes, 2 spindles and all the interlocks.
Mesa also make PCI cards. The 5i22, for example, gives you 96 IO lines from a single PCI slot (most people use the cheaper 72 IO 5i20 or 5i23). If that is not enough IO then each header on the boards can control 8x 7i64 cards, which would max you out at 768 outputs and 768 inputs plus 64 analogue inputs with a 5i22. Pete has talked of making splitters to bypass this limitation.
How much IO do you need?
That is not to say that some people don't end up using multiple 5i23 cards, but I think that is because they want to use more than 3 different daughter card variants. (You can do this, incidentally, with a single card if you don't need all the channels of each board and are willing to make up a special ribbon cable)
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