PID parameters

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24 Oct 2011 13:24 #14167 by bill.j
PID parameters was created by bill.j
Hi
I really appreciate the responses and good advice. As mentioned I am a new user of EMC2. I have a Bridgeport series II and upgrade the control to EMC2 using a mesa 5I23 and a 7I33. I connected the first axis and encoder and it worked. But when in g code command the speed exceeds from 2000 mm/min following error occurs. I think the PID parameters (or other parameters) are wrong.
I attach my ini file. Can anybody tell me about error in my parameters?

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File Name: emc1.ini
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24 Oct 2011 15:47 #14176 by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:PID parameters
I assume you didn't set up HalScope to tune your following error... iirc using HalScope to display the following error I increased P until it started to oscillate then added a bit of I repeating until best results were observed in HalScope. Then I added a bit of D at a time till the following error was lowest I could make it then I think I added a bit FF1. Each time you change something run a trace on HalScope and see what the result is.

The above assumes your drives take a velocity input and have a tacho feedback to the drive and an encoder feedback to EMC.

I'm sure there are many others on here that can explain it better than me...

John

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26 Oct 2011 04:00 #14265 by Zig
Replied by Zig on topic Re:PID parameters
A simple approach to tuning the PID loop with Feed forward component is:


set all parameters to very low values ( say 1 )
increase P untill axis starts to oscillate back off P till it no longer oscillates.

increase FF to about 1% effective contribution

increase D till axis start to hiss ( the mtor will emit a kind of hissing sound )

Increase I untill axis is no longer sloppy but fights back any motor shat displacement you try to make.

This is a good starting point.
Now gradually alter the I and D till loop response is with minimum overshoot and minimum delay.

Try increasing P and FF and optimising the I and D coeffiicients

Presence of FF helps to bring the loop into as good a state as possible so that the I and D components have minimum contribution to make to overall performance.

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26 Oct 2011 10:04 #14274 by kostas
Replied by kostas on topic Re:PID parameters
Zig wrote:

increase FF to about 1% effective contribution


Which FF? And this means that the FF should be (for example) 1 if P is 100?

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26 Oct 2011 10:12 #14275 by Zig
Replied by Zig on topic Re:PID parameters
Good question..
there are a number of feed forward coefficients available to the user.
The simplest and easyest to comprehend in terms of oop beaviour is the simple proportional feed forward. That is to say take one percent nominaly of proportional signal and feed it directly to the servo drive.
This tends to pre correct the loop controller and places a smaller demand on the PID portion of the controller.

So in this case FF0 is the one to play with.

Again no hard and fast rules; use halscope to monitor the actual error

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26 Oct 2011 10:17 #14276 by kostas
Replied by kostas on topic Re:PID parameters
I'll try it. Never used FF0 so far, only FF1 and sometimes FF2 (which both need very small values otherwise the loop becomes very unstable, from what I've seen and read)

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26 Oct 2011 15:08 #14305 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:PID parameters
Zig wrote:

So in this case FF0 is the one to play with.


In a velocity loop, yes. Not in a position loop. In a position loop you want FF1.

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26 Oct 2011 15:53 #14307 by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:PID parameters
So if FF0 is for a velocity loop and FF1 is for a position loop what is FF3 for?

John

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26 Oct 2011 16:57 #14310 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:PID parameters
BigJohnT wrote:

So if FF0 is for a velocity loop and FF1 is for a position loop what is FF3 for?


FF3? No idea.

FF2 would be the torque (or accelleration) precontrol to a position loop.

Maybe.

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26 Oct 2011 17:00 #14311 by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:PID parameters
Yea that was a typo... thanks for the explanation.

John

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