G76 -Somtimes- faults and does not synchronize

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7 years 4 months ago #137225 by Vitran
I can look at the encoder again. The encoder is on its own separate timing belt on the main spindle. I made sure it was tight, however it is a (slightly) worn sprocket. I wonder if that wheel is not 1:1 with the spindle. Maybe? The belt is tight and I cant make it slip. I am not sure how to fix the sprocket or belt or how to find the same size sprocket or how damaged the spindle's sprocket is. It is wrapped around the spindle near where the collet closer is.

I am only spinning the spindle one way, so it isn't that, but I will take it apart and see if it may need some cleaning. I did spin it and measure the pulses on the oscilloscope. Everything looks like a clean signal.

image missing https://i.imgur.com/CJ9jFCk.jpg

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7 years 4 months ago - 7 years 4 months ago #137267 by Vitran
My current guess is that the diameter of the encoder wheel is worn smaller than the spindle wheel. There are the right number of notches to make a 1:1 ratio. So if the belt is loose but held on with the notches, it worked as both had the same number of teeth. By tightening, I think the belt is jumping and snapping into the grooves, sometimes jumping forward and back, as the diameter of the wheel on the encoder and the spindle are slightly diffetent, maybe by half a tooth or so. This made noise on the rpm signal and slipped the engagement for locking the spindle.
Last edit: 7 years 4 months ago by Vitran.

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7 years 4 months ago - 7 years 4 months ago #137546 by Vitran
Pictures of status
Belt looks good. I measured (roughly) 1.61"/8 divisions. I believe it is an XL belt
image missing https://i.imgur.com/uiXFTnB.jpg
Main spindle pulley looks good
image missing https://i.imgur.com/O5Yb4Lm.jpg
The driven pulley. Oddly enough, I believe the pulley did not come with flanges. The small divots on the side seems to suggest it was originally flat, no flange.
image missing https://i.imgur.com/5CfNXyk.jpg

I got a price from SDP for $145 for the pulley. Toronto Gear for about $34 but will need boring and machining. Hardinge says $1450 for the gear + $1024 for a new shaft as the shaft design has changed. I am going with Toronto Gear
Last edit: 7 years 4 months ago by Vitran.

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7 years 4 months ago #137547 by Vitran
Other pictures if people are interested:
Pulley linked to encoder
image missing https://i.imgur.com/VkFtVL0.jpg
Encoder linked to spindle
image missing https://i.imgur.com/qKQG91r.jpg
Encoder with cover
image missing https://i.imgur.com/1CHih9G.jpg
Aside, and not the encoder on the spindle, but this is whats inside the Dr. Heidenhain encoders
image missing https://i.imgur.com/m6bARVs.jpg
image missing https://i.imgur.com/ABjlfEc.jpg
image missing https://i.imgur.com/EXpk1Cs.jpg

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7 years 3 months ago #138398 by Gene1934
When I looked at how to encode the spindle on my new to me 70 yo Sheldon, my eyes kept coming back to the front bull gear thats locked to the spindle, Nothing else inside the headstock was locked to the spindle. So I silicone glued a 6-32 steel screw so it was aligned with a tooth of the gear effectively giving me one wide tooth I could used for an index. This was on the back edge of the gear.

Then I made from 1/2 fairly hard alu plate, a bracket I could mount with a 5mm bolt, that had an inside curve wrapped around about 40 degrees of this gear. And filed the back where it was pulled to the casting so when the bolt was tight, it cleared the teeth by 10 thou or so. Then I made 3 slots in the inside of the curve just deep enough to hide 3 ats-667 hall effect detectors in those slots. I reversed one of them so it detected the added screw rather than the teeth. Then found my math for spacing was bad and had to widen the slots until I was getting a 90 degree quadrature A/B signal, and glued everything into place with a heavily gelled superglue.

That was 2 years ago and it hasn't missed a count since. On my Sheldon thats a 60 tooth bull gear, so linuxcnc gets a new report that includes both direction and speed every 1.5 degrees. Everytime one of those hall detectors changes state

My .hal file does not do spindle speed feedback as I've put a 3 phase motor on a vfd in it so speed is pretty steady. but my "at speed" comparator is set to only go true when the speed is within 10% of requested. I normally set the right end of a G76 around 3 turns off the end of the bar, and generally it just works.

For G33.1 rigid tapping, since the hole is usually blind and the tap could hit the bottom of the hole and break it, I've some hal code that measures the distance and the spindle turns in the fwd direction after the reverse at the bottom of the hole has been issued, A definite problem when the chuck weighs 40 some lbs. The vfd is making the belts yelp while its doing the turnaround. So I make an air cut and note the overshoot and subtract that from the depth of the G33.1 move. Haven't broken a tap since. :)

I just don't trust something that works by position when there are pulleys and or belts involved. Get rid of them and make your own if possible. So thats what I did.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page < geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene >

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7 years 3 months ago - 7 years 3 months ago #139000 by Vitran
Update
I machined a new sprocket. For price comparison, here are the quotes I got:
Hardinge - $1460.00 for sprocket + $1020.00 for new shaft as the shaft design changed (back order) + $2.34 for a new spring. (all in USD)
SDP - $156.00 USD for a sprocket with the wrong bore size. ETA 4 months
Amazon - $38 CAD, eta 2 months
Toronto Gear - $35 CAD +$20 shipping for a sprocket with the wrong bore size. ETA 1 week

I went with Toronto Gear.

Had to machine the gear down a bit to match the old gear. Overall it worked out. I now have a smooth signal on the rpm of the spindle. I think I consider that a success.

image missing https://i.imgur.com/FPDMCgb.jpg image missing https://i.imgur.com/x2AHWys.jpg


Now that I have that running I am having a bit of difficulty finding a PID tuning process for a spindle. As well the 'Calibrate' window shows axis 1-8, but the spindle is axis 9. I currently edit the *.ini and restart LinuxCNC each time I make a change. Is there a better window for this? Is there a tutorial everyone references for the spindle rpm tuning like people have for the servo position tuning?

I am currently watching the desired rps, the measured rps and the output voltage signal. I currently have a PID of .45/5/0.015 and a FF0* of .25. Increasing 'I' has the output voltage signal overshoot faster than the spindle can respond, but at low speeds (<1000rpm) it takes about 4 seconds to go from 5% off to 1% off. It is okay and no oscillations but not great enough for me. If I want to have constant surface speed I need a faster response.

*I put ff1, not FF0 here when I first wrote it
Last edit: 7 years 3 months ago by Vitran.

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