Retrofit MAHO MH700c with Philips 432 control

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13 Jul 2016 22:32 #77418 by akb1212
I do know of IC-haus, and also have bought some of their chips with the intention to use them on my mill with LinuxCNC.

But there are may more types than the ones you mention. And they all differ somewhat. The best way to know all the different models would be to go to their web-page to see for yourself. www.ichaus.de/keyword/Interpolators

They also sell demo-boards with chips mounted, and the basic hardware added so you can build your own interpolator without having to do any soldering.

I have several of them to experiment with. And intend to do so in the future. For now I have other things happening in my life, and will have to put that on hold. But I'm really keen to see others experimenting and posting their findings about this.

BTW, most of their chips either need an external EEPROM or use a built inn one to store the configuration. And for that you need a programmer. I do have one.
There are only a very few of their chips that can be used without this, and instead are using external resistor ladders to do the configuration (with a reduced number of available settings). IC-TW8 is one of them. I have a demo board with this.

Many of their interpolators is only able to communicate with BiSS (and other) interface, but that should in theory not be a problem. LinuxCNC and Mesa interfaces should be able to read them. And it's a much more efficient interface for position control.

So if anyone really want to use IC-haus interpolators it would be an idea to look in to that part of it. That would give a real benefit over quadrature encoders.

But when I looked at the polish site that were selling the encoders in question there was no analogue (1Vpp) versions available. Only TTL and RS422 with fixed pulse length (not possible to interpolate) interfaces. Could that be because they don't sell many of them? Too bad though, because that means we cant use them with interpolators.

Sorry for being off topic from the original topic of this thread... but I do hope this information is picked up and someone else looks in to it too. I think it's well worth looking in to, and an upgrade from "normal" quadrature encoders.

Anders

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18 May 2017 19:13 #93365 by uli12us
The NV Chip is hardware selectable with some jumper or a mouse-piano. It can work with 11µA or 1,1V. And these chips are really cheap. Depending from the dealer its in the range from 5-10$

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11 Jun 2017 16:49 #94407 by Henk
Hi. We have used the IC Haus NV poduct on Heidenhein linear scales with no issues.

Does anyone have electrical diagtams for a Maho MH 600 C? The one i recently purchased has indramat drives and a philips 432 control.

Thanks
Henk

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18 May 2020 13:45 #168150 by 6266
Hi all,

plse forgive that i pick up this thread for my problem.

My name is Ralf and i read a lot about converting cnc machines to linuxcnc but could not yet positively decide for myself to convert my milling machine Maho 700C with Philips 432/9 ( Heidenhain 3000 Series = 3360 V300 as far as i know ) .
Green monitor, no function buttons , no graphics.4 axis manual with digital readout and swivelable table .
Y-Axis and Z-Axis have been changed from original configuration to vertical Z-Axis .(Tool vertical with milling head fitted)

Since the machine was bought defectively , it was repaired (Battery defective, Data transfer via serial not possible - possible after changing driver ICs on cpu board- not working again now) - learning a lot regarding machine constants / machine parameters / trying to find the correct documentation etc.
Bought original documentation from Maho - electrical and mechanical part covering my machine but control was changed long before i bought it from tnc135 to the existing 432/9
As you may understand from the above , the machine is a work in progress and not (yet ??) productive .

My actual problem is a PE 2480/10 ( 9418 024 80101 ) Messkopf Lesekopf reading head is defective.
Fault was that Z-Axis was noisy - hardly following the commands by the control - sometimes humming / jumping up and down by 0,2 mmtrs approx. . Interchanged Y and Z reading heads and found that problem was with the reading head (fault changed to Y-Axis.
Since defective anyway, opened it up , measured checked the lines on the plug , -seem to be within the voltage areas as per diagrams by Nick Müller / Sascha Ittner. Checked voltage across light source :1.34 Volts across the led , Voltage before serial resistor 10.6 Volts , Resistor 820 Ohms, current 10 mA approx. . According to this voltage drop it should be a IR - LED of longer wavelength (type unknown). After remounting the reading head to the machine , the Y reading did not work. To verify cable and electronics on Y-Axis mounted back good known reading head and working well. So probably I killed a component on the board completely - possibly the diode array by static.

My questions are:

Does anybody here have

1) further docs (internal diagram) of this reading head ?
2) Setup handbook for this measuring system (Philips) ?
3) Type and source of the Infrared - LED used ?

Thank you

Ralf

PS a replacement unit for the head is ordered already - but I want to repair the defective one anyway.

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18 May 2020 15:33 - 20 May 2020 21:25 #168158 by 6266
and of course

4) Type and source of the photo-diode-array used ?

Thank you

Ralf

edit : found a nearly complete description / diagram included in the master thesis

TECHNISCHE UNIVERSITEIT EINDHOVEN
FACULTEIT DER ELEKTROTECHNIEK
Vakgroep Meten en Regelen
EEN ANALYSE VAN HET
DYNAMISCHE GEDRAG VAN EEN
LINEAIR VERPLAATSINGSMEETSYSTEEM
VOOR CNC-MACHINES
door H.A.Verhoef

last Pages / attachments

(and found the link to this of course in the fix your MAHO thread -thank you Anders)

This also makes interesting reading -while no written in my native language it is still understood 95 %

The reading head used in the documentation is laso a little different from mine (it uses the additional zero inductive sensor) but the photo ic is well documented - unfortunately without the maker.

What I could not yet find is a source for this opto scanner ic -

it is referred to as

OPTO SCANNER

Type : OQ 0005 as documented in the above thesis, stamped as OQ0005 on my ic (see attached photos)
Maker: unknown
Housing : DIL 16 Pin Package SOT-84 ceramic with glass window

Technical data
General
Crystal size 4.9 x 3.5 mm x mm
total sensitive area : 1,8 x 4.4 mm x mm= 7.92 mm x mm
Pitch of the photodiodes : 20mym
Number of groups of photodiodes : 10
Number of photodiodes in a group: 22
Supply voltage max 11V here 8,4 V used.
Attachments:
Last edit: 20 May 2020 21:25 by 6266. Reason: further info found

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18 May 2020 17:29 #168168 by akb1212
Hi Ralf,

Have you read my quite long thread over at Practical Machinist? The "fix your maho thread"?

In there you will see that most of us have given up on the Philips read heads, as they don't give out a normal quadrature or any known pattern, but have their own proprietary way of doing this that makes it rather difficult to use for retrofitting to a different system.

Sorry to give you this information, I know most others who have converted their Mahos with these scales have replaced them with standard ones.

Too bad though.... the Heidenhein ones are so fantastic! With the correct converter (EXE) boxes found cheaply on ebay you can get sub-micron resolution. I have 0.1 um resolution on mine now. And I do have the original correction sheet from the manufacturor I can insert in a correction file.

One important thing worth knowing: What year is your machine from, and does it have brushed DC or brushless servos? This is a rather big difference!

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18 May 2020 17:57 #168172 by 6266
AKB

thank you for your fast reply.

Yes , these units have their own kind of output - some kind of PWM modulation as per description by Sascha Ittner (pdf on Github , diagrams recorded by Nick Müller).

If I should convert to Linixcnc , I would like to keep the Philips heads with Sascha´s solution (Head through wall :-) )

But at this time I just want to make it work again with the original system.

And yes - brushed motors Indramat (8 Brushes each tacho + motor)

And there is a company in eastern Germany that can repair these heads - at a price I guess I am not ready to pay.
So I bought a used one today for 150€ and hope that will be it for the moment.

BTW the ir-LED is working - Could observe it by means of snake cam and Raspberry noir cam - not with iPhone cam (ir - filter).

Still I would like to know who the maker of this photo array was and if it is still available ....

I should reread your thread -- sure more economical / practical way to do the things ...

Thank you

Ralf

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19 May 2020 14:39 #168274 by 6266
Hi Anders ,

still reading that thread ....

hours ....

but excellent stuff - too bad I found it that late .....


Thank you for starting it

Ralf

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20 May 2020 21:33 #168411 by 6266
schamatics -- that's a good one :-))

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