motor for milling and chuck ER20 motor shaft

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10 Oct 2021 09:29 #222721 by PhilipME
 hello
I am 90% done with my milling machine. I made it rigid enough for 8 mm tool milling steel

My question

I found a motor that weigh around 15 kg and I want to attach ER20 to the end of the shaft motor.

motor name plate :
phases : 2 phase or 1 phase
the salesman told me 2 phase but the name plate says 1 phase
volt : 220 volts
Current : 11 amps
horse power : 3
cycles : 60 hertz

Is such arrangement common. I mean attaching the chuck directly to the shaft motor?
the motor shaft is 19 mm and the ID of the chuck  I have seen 16mm and 14 mm I did not complete my search yet to see if there are 19 mm.
Most likely I have to machine the motor shaft if I go this route.

What type of fitting is such attachment (the chuck to the motor shaft) is it interference fit or what ?
If it is interference fit does not the chuck comes lose when it gets hot when working the work piece?

I have seen some motor shaft collet chucks that have holes all the way through in the shaft axial way which indicates that ahole in the shaft need to be drilled . Is such arrangement common. 

finally the VFD 
the motor speed as it is will be a little high for milling steel with 8 mm tool, will a VFD help with such motor?

does the Huanyang type VFD drive a single phase or a 2 phase motor?


many thanks for any hint or just putting me in the correct path

Philip





 

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10 Oct 2021 09:32 #222722 by PhilipME
Edit :

the hole is in the radial not axial

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10 Oct 2021 11:06 #222732 by chris@cnc
Hi Philip,
basically is possible to mount a tool direct in spindle. But it must be a spindle no simple motor. They have other bearing size and arrangement.
A single phase motor has usually fix speed and is very limit in speed regulate. Good way is use a gearbox + spindle. This is cheap solution.
2 phase motor -> dosen't exist on earth
In case of using VFD, do you need 3 phase motor. The 2.2 KW + ER20 Huanyang VFD + spindle set have 24000 rpm. You can regulate speed near zero just without torque. Over 8000 rpm you get enough torque for cheese and for wood over 11000 rpm. 
Steel is not possible in this speed without hightech tools. 
One way is use the 5.5Kw spindle of this type.
Check whats your most common spindle speed will be. And select of this the spindle. Be in mind,  you will lost torque in lower speed in case of VFD.  Check the speed / torque diagram.
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10 Oct 2021 11:41 #222739 by PhilipME
Very clear

Many thanks Chris

It is obvious now that I will use belt driven spindle but for the time being I will buy a 2.2 kw spindle and use the machine for wood untill I move the Z axis stepper motor out of the way that is preventing me from using belt driven spindle.

I will post videos when I commission the machine (without spindle)

Many many thanks
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10 Oct 2021 15:00 - 10 Oct 2021 15:01 #222751 by PhilipME
While I was browsing I spotted the G-Penny spindle advertised as metal ( they specify iron ) working spindle. With min speed of 12000 rpm I suspect that it can cut steel other than engraving.

this the one

www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...c00sNMX5T&mp=1



quoted from Aliexpress site

2. Why customer who ordered said 12000rpm no torque, and working not good?
A: We already contacted the customer Mager who said such problems, and finally we found this is the inverter setting problems, now he said it works well in 4000-15000rpm.


3. What is the difference between the wood working spindle and metal working spindle?
A: Metal spindle use the iron shell, so the rigidity is better. Also metal spindle is pole=4, so it have big toruque in 12000rpm than wood working spindle. If you use wood working spindle for hard metal, the inside bearings will broken in 1-2 month . But if you use metal spindle , it can works well and for a long time.
[Quote/]

Philip

Last edit: 10 Oct 2021 15:01 by PhilipME.

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10 Oct 2021 20:48 - 10 Oct 2021 20:53 #222794 by chris@cnc
Yes, this sales guys talking much. The support will end after pressing order button. 4 pole motor has nothing to do with torque. Basically are 3 power and the fourth earth. This has hopefully every spindle.
High torque spindle has internal different wiring and is 6 pole. But this is other universe and not for hobby machine.
True is, with standard ceramic bearing is not recommend to milling steel.
But with metal bearing and 12000 rpm is also not recommend to mill and drill steel. 
Usually in steel is common speed from 500 - 4000 rpm. You can turn it as you want but wood and steel together is a bad option.
With this big chinese spindle is possible to cut steel over 4000rpm but very short time, smal chips, smal tools, no drilling.
Is your common work steel, i would use the belt driven bt30 version and 8000rpm max speed.
For wood the other spindles with very limit steel option.
Last edit: 10 Oct 2021 20:53 by chris@cnc.
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11 Oct 2021 07:47 - 11 Oct 2021 09:20 #222823 by PhilipME
very clear

the BT-30 power head weighs 28 kg (60 lb).

Next week I will post a video in the DIY machines. I will check if my Z-axis nema 34 can  elevates 35 kg up the Z-axis. which I think it can.

After that I will place order for BT-30 power head.

your feed back helped me adjust my path

thanks
Last edit: 11 Oct 2021 09:20 by PhilipME.

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12 Oct 2021 23:01 #222984 by andypugh

2 phase motor -> dosen't exist on earth

Not entirely true. Stepper motors are typically 2-phase motors. And 2-phase induction motors used to exist. 
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12 Oct 2021 23:28 #222989 by tommylight
Single phase induction motors are in reality a 2 phase motor and use a capacitor to delay the "helper" phase voltage.
Plenty of those around.
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