VFD setup help
- chris@cnc
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29 Jun 2024 17:35 #304040
by chris@cnc
Replied by chris@cnc on topic VFD setup help
I am surprised by this engineer's statement. If you can't give full voltage, you can't expect full power. Power is the product of volts * amps. If this engineer gets full power with half the voltage, he can do magic. The motor and VFD must fit together. Frequency-controlled motors have characteristics such as torque and frequency, or torque and power. Not easy to read or calculate. But I would say full power is only possible if everything fits.
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- ihavenofish
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29 Jun 2024 17:47 #304042
by ihavenofish
Replied by ihavenofish on topic VFD setup help
Not full power. Full torque. This is a common response form people on the issue. No one ever stated we expected to get a full 1.5kw at 60% speed. we expect 900w.
The torque should not change as speed(voltage) lowers normally, especially with a vector drive. I was getting half the expected torque and the spindle would not stay at speed. This means something unexpected was happening when the voltage was lowered that would not happen on a 1000hz drive that was simply set to 600hz.
The torque should not change as speed(voltage) lowers normally, especially with a vector drive. I was getting half the expected torque and the spindle would not stay at speed. This means something unexpected was happening when the voltage was lowered that would not happen on a 1000hz drive that was simply set to 600hz.
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29 Jun 2024 19:01 #304047
by chris@cnc
Replied by chris@cnc on topic VFD setup help
yes, but the torque is also calculated from the power and speed. And if the power decreases, you have to change something else to get the same torque. I don't think it's possible with the same motor and VFD. A performance diagram of the motor should explain that. I don't think that a 900w motor with the same design has the same torque as a 1.5kw motor.
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- ihavenofish
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29 Jun 2024 20:57 #304058
by ihavenofish
Replied by ihavenofish on topic VFD setup help
.....
a 1.5kw 60000rpm motor has 0.24nm torque.
at 36000rpm that motor STILL has 0.24nm torque and puts out 900w.
at 18000rpm that motor STILL has 0.24nm torque and puts out 450w.
220v x 5 amps = 1.5kw (345vdc bus minus losses)
135v x 5 amps= 900w. the motor is still drawing 5 amps here. it is drawing over 1000w, but only OUTPUTTING 400-500.
There is nothing to add here. that is the EXPERCTED behavior. but it's not doing that. Clearly when you alter the base voltage on this delta drive it is not simply reducing the speed, it is doing something else, similar to how cutting the bus voltage on a BLDC motor will cut the available torque, where the normal way you reduce speed is to alter the duty cycle, keeping the peak bus voltage.
I am not an ac motor expert so I do not know the "why". It may be literally the same thing as the DC motor.
The correct way to set this up may well be to keep it at 220v for 599hz, but then set the voltage for 598hz to 135v... but I'm done messing with it. Don't care anymore.
lenze is going to make me a custom drive I hope and i can move on with my life.
a 1.5kw 60000rpm motor has 0.24nm torque.
at 36000rpm that motor STILL has 0.24nm torque and puts out 900w.
at 18000rpm that motor STILL has 0.24nm torque and puts out 450w.
220v x 5 amps = 1.5kw (345vdc bus minus losses)
135v x 5 amps= 900w. the motor is still drawing 5 amps here. it is drawing over 1000w, but only OUTPUTTING 400-500.
There is nothing to add here. that is the EXPERCTED behavior. but it's not doing that. Clearly when you alter the base voltage on this delta drive it is not simply reducing the speed, it is doing something else, similar to how cutting the bus voltage on a BLDC motor will cut the available torque, where the normal way you reduce speed is to alter the duty cycle, keeping the peak bus voltage.
I am not an ac motor expert so I do not know the "why". It may be literally the same thing as the DC motor.
The correct way to set this up may well be to keep it at 220v for 599hz, but then set the voltage for 598hz to 135v... but I'm done messing with it. Don't care anymore.
lenze is going to make me a custom drive I hope and i can move on with my life.
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