Lagun mill retrofit with Mesa cards
24 Oct 2011 20:31 #14188
by kostas
Lagun mill retrofit with Mesa cards was created by kostas
A friend of mine retrofits a Lagun mill that he owns. He has already made some work with Gecko drives connected to the parallel port, servo motors from Kelling (www.kelinginc.net/KL34-170-90.pdf) and Mach3, but he's not satisfied with the result.
He now wants to change to EMC2 (loved it when we tried it with his equipment) and a closed loop setup and I will help him accomplish this, so I would like your opinions and advice on what I'm thinking.
Our goal is to keep the cost as low as possible, without sacrificing quality of the results. We'll keep the motors and encoders and I'm thinking using a Mesa 5i23, two 7i29s for PWM driving of the motors and one or two 7i37s for general I/O.
The general idea is closed loop control with the motor encoders, but I'm also thinking of trying velocity loop with the motor encoders and a second position loop with the linear scales (5 um, Taiwan made) already fitted on the machine. I read in another thread here that this is kind of difficult to achieve though.
I would like to have some opinions on the proposed setup and the two closed loops.
Thanks in advance!
He now wants to change to EMC2 (loved it when we tried it with his equipment) and a closed loop setup and I will help him accomplish this, so I would like your opinions and advice on what I'm thinking.
Our goal is to keep the cost as low as possible, without sacrificing quality of the results. We'll keep the motors and encoders and I'm thinking using a Mesa 5i23, two 7i29s for PWM driving of the motors and one or two 7i37s for general I/O.
The general idea is closed loop control with the motor encoders, but I'm also thinking of trying velocity loop with the motor encoders and a second position loop with the linear scales (5 um, Taiwan made) already fitted on the machine. I read in another thread here that this is kind of difficult to achieve though.
I would like to have some opinions on the proposed setup and the two closed loops.
Thanks in advance!
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25 Oct 2011 00:16 #14191
by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:Lagun mill retrofit with Mesa cards
The 5i23 has no advantage over the 5i20 as far as EMC goes... You can have two 7i29's and two 7i37TA's on the 5i20. I'd just stick to the encoder feedback to the 7i29's and forget the headache of trying to make a linear scale work.
my 2 cents
John
my 2 cents
John
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25 Oct 2011 06:53 - 25 Oct 2011 06:53 #14199
by kostas
Replied by kostas on topic Re:Lagun mill retrofit with Mesa cards
Thanks for the cents John!
5i23 is a little more expensive than 5i20, so I thought that it would be good to have a 400K instead of 200K gates card. Even though I don't know what this means in practice. PCW, could you please explain what is the difference?
I wonder why it is hard to close the loop with scales. Is it because of the backlash, or something else? Andy mentioned something about dither in another thread. What does this mean?
5i23 is a little more expensive than 5i20, so I thought that it would be good to have a 400K instead of 200K gates card. Even though I don't know what this means in practice. PCW, could you please explain what is the difference?
I wonder why it is hard to close the loop with scales. Is it because of the backlash, or something else? Andy mentioned something about dither in another thread. What does this mean?
Last edit: 25 Oct 2011 06:53 by kostas.
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25 Oct 2011 12:06 - 25 Oct 2011 12:12 #14210
by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:Lagun mill retrofit with Mesa cards
Usually the scales have too coarse of resolution and a servo setup will hunt a count or two so the finer count per inch of an encoder the better suited it is to servo feedback iirc. For example my Hardinge CHNC has an input scale of 40,000 counts per inch and does well when one count represents 0.000025". A linear scale can't get close to this kind of resolution unless you get a very expensive one I assume. I think a DRO type of scale is in the neighborhood of 0.0005" of resolution... but I might be wrong about that assumption.
And yes backlash if you have it will make servo tuning impossible if you try and use a linear scale due to the normal hunting of a count or twe of a servo drive.
Anyway that is how I understand the problem with linear scales.
EMC doesn't use/need the 200k extra gates on the 5i23 so it is a waste of money.
John
And yes backlash if you have it will make servo tuning impossible if you try and use a linear scale due to the normal hunting of a count or twe of a servo drive.
Anyway that is how I understand the problem with linear scales.
EMC doesn't use/need the 200k extra gates on the 5i23 so it is a waste of money.
John
Last edit: 25 Oct 2011 12:12 by BigJohnT.
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25 Oct 2011 12:25 #14212
by kostas
Replied by kostas on topic Re:Lagun mill retrofit with Mesa cards
BigJohnT wrote:
Yes, it is in this neighborhood of resolution. Actually, as I mentioned in the first post, this one has a resolution of 0.005mm, so roughly 0.0002". I hope that if we manage to get a tight enough pid loop, we'll have a max error of +-4 scale steps (+-0.0008"). I don't know if this is possible though.
Backlash will be eliminated by using two ballnuts and some belleville washer springs, so I guess we will be ok for this kind of problem.
I think a DRO type of scale is in the neighborhood of 0.0005" of resolution... but I might be wrong about that assumption.
And yes backlash if you have it will make servo tuning impossible if you try and use a linear scale due to the normal hunting of a count or twe of a servo drive.
Yes, it is in this neighborhood of resolution. Actually, as I mentioned in the first post, this one has a resolution of 0.005mm, so roughly 0.0002". I hope that if we manage to get a tight enough pid loop, we'll have a max error of +-4 scale steps (+-0.0008"). I don't know if this is possible though.
Backlash will be eliminated by using two ballnuts and some belleville washer springs, so I guess we will be ok for this kind of problem.
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