CHNC4 retrofit on the way.

Hi,

Long time lurker, 1st time poster!

I have a CHNC4 and an HNC that need to be retrofitted. The CHNC4 is going 1st, primarily as it has the 16C nose, which is more usefull to me.

The CHNC4 machine had been previuously purchased allegedly running. The seller couldn't get it running, or even the control (GN6) to light up. I paid $1100 for the machine, which I thought was fair as the ways are in very good condition.

I am thinking of going 2 different ways with this retro:

1) keep the Hi-aks, Z/X servos with resolvers/tachos,and the spindle drive, and retrofit using as much of the existing parts as possible.

2) Keep the X/Z motors, add encoders,with the tachos, use 30A8T amplifiers, 500w 80vdc power supply for both axis. Change the spindle motor to a 5hp 1750rpm Baldor 3ph motor and VFD. (I found some Omron encoders from China for $26, but as far as I can tell are knockoffs, therefore may be risky to use)

The advantage I can see with 1) is that it might be easier to wire into the system, the advantage I can see to 2) is that it will be more reliable, with newer components.

The eventual aim is to have a production machine to make money with. I'd like to configure the control with a manual pendant, rotary switches for feed/spindle speed override, maybe a touch screen, but better yet a keyboard off a CNC machine. I would like to avoid having to use a PC keyboard or mouse. I'm used to running Fanuc based machines and would like if possible to be as compatible as possible. If it meant using a keyboard/mouse to get it running that would be fine.

Based on retrofits that people have done on Hardinge CHNC's, what makes the most sense to get the machine up and running quickly?

Thanks in advance for any help that people can give me.

If the hi acks are still.in reasonable working order, keep them, they are reliable and bullit proof. If you don't want to fuss with them, use the AMC 25a20 instead of the 30a8, as the later overvotages at 88 volts and your power supply puts out 90v. In addition you will lose 10% of your rapid speed. If keeping the hiaxks, keep the resolvers and tachs, if you are dumping the hi aks, us quality encoders and run the amps in current mode, or back emf. I like accucoders, they are well worth the $200 each. Using the stock geared tachs with encoders is a hassle, there are encoders that are resolver sized that can be used to replace the resolver, they ain't cheap..... An operator panel is a whole other bag of worms, ive built several using mesa ssi I/o boards. I guess you could program it in ladder, I program them as components. I've seen other folks do.simple buttons etc on hal. This has been done more then once and I don't think you will have trouble finding help or even a complete set of files and ladder for it. It just depends on what you want the machine to do and how comfortable you are doing the work. If you are used to Fanuc, Lcnc is gonna take some getting used to. Its different..

JR1050 wrote:

If the hi acks are still.in reasonable working order, keep them, they are reliable and bullit proof. If you don't want to fuss with them, use the AMC 25a20 instead of the 30a8, as the later overvotages at 88 volts and your power supply puts out 90v. In addition you will lose 10% of your rapid speed. .

The reason for using the 25a20's is they seem to be plentiful, and cheap as chips. I looked for 25a20's, their more expensive, and not as plentiful.

I think my best bet is to test the Hi-acks first before I get to carried away. If they work it might be one less thing to worry about.

I'm not worried about losing 10% of my rapid speed as I tend to do small quantities and loosing some rapid speed is not a concern to me. On the other hand if I got an order for a few 1000 widgets, I may have to eat my words.

JR1050 wrote:

. An operator panel is a whole other bag of worms, ive built several using mesa ssi I/o boards. I guess you could program it in ladder, I program them as components. I've seen other folks do.simple buttons etc on hal. This has been done more then once and I don't think you will have trouble finding help or even a complete set of files and ladder for it. It just depends on what you want the machine to do and how comfortable you are doing the work. If you are used to Fanuc, Lcnc is gonna take some getting used to. Its different..

Ultimately I want to get the machine up and running, it's likely if it works OK I'd get very rapidly used to the keyboard/mouse setup, it doesn't have to emulate a Fanuc, maybe a touch screen would be the way to go.

JR1050 wrote:

I if you are dumping the hi aks, us quality encoders and run the amps in current mode, or back emf. I like accucoders, they are well worth the $200 each. Using the stock geared tachs with encoders is a hassle, there are encoders that are resolver sized that can be used to replace the resolver, they ain't cheap..... ..

Can the encoder completely replace the resolver and tach? I assume it can. I guess the difference would be in the MESA boards I would use, 7i94 vs 7i77?

andypugh wrote:

I am a real fan of resolvers, I probably should admit that first. They are tough, absolute and precise.

.

I know! I read your comments on resolvers in another thread. I'm leaning that way, especially if the Hi-aks are alive and well.

andypugh wrote:

This is a friend's HXL and self-made control panel for inspiration.
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Qll6-unQnt...qsPw?feat=directlink
For the work he is doing the enclosure was in the way.

Compliments to your friend, that is an extremely nice layout! I'd be proud to end up with something 25% as nice. I'm good at doing the 1st 90% of a project, it's the last 10% that makes it look polished that I've never been very good at.

What's your opinion on a 5HP Baldor 1750rpm motor and VFD? I was thinking of gearing it for maybe 4000rpm max, but I wonder if the low speed torque will be adequate? I have a motor with the 184T frame so It will not be difficult to mount.

I guess once again I should test the spindle drive to see if it's operable!

The hiaks require tach feedback, they are velocity amps. You will spend more time and money building an 88v PS then you will on the 25a20, I've been down this road. If you are hell bent on the 30a8 , I have several, I will give you a deal on them. Chnc/hnc's only rapid at 200ipm, and they eat up time. The original spindle motor is a porter 5hp DC servo and should be a size 2 or 3 hiak drive. If it works keep it. If not any motor will pretty much work to replace it. Yaskawa, Hitachi, Fuji and Mitsubishi all make very affordable modern drives that work well.,5 HP being around $300. All the old Ge stuff is getting long in the tooth and parts are expensive. You can keep the resolvers and TACHS and still use the AMC amps, as I did the same on a B&S mill. I used the mesa resolver board for the axis and an additional encoder board for the spindle ,mpg and rotab. I also.did a Harding's like yours, I used 25a20 amps, accucoder 3000ppr encoders on z and x, a 1024 ppr for the spindle, a 5 HP marathon motor and Fuji drive for the spindle. The amps run in current mode with no TACHS, and I used a 90,v PS for them. It is still running emc 2.4.6 and is reliable and accurate. It is slow in comparison to modern machines.

andypugh wrote:

triumph406 wrote:

I there any reason not to keep the existing spindle motor even if you change the drives? There may be, as the HXL I linked to early had a rather awkward combination of current and voltage. It also turned out to have an asbestos brake, and was full of unpleasant dust.

5HP is quite a lot of power for a modestly sized lathe, typically smaller lathes came with 1 or 2hp motors, though in those cases there would normally be back-gears at the very least to increase the low-speed torque, and I assume that your lathe is direct-drive.

My lathe has a 1kW 1500rpm motor geared for 1500rpm @ 100Hz. I have to admit that it is short of torque at low RPM, though it is likely that a more modern VFD woud help there.

I could see a direct drive 1kw motor not having a lot of low rpm torque, the HNC has a 1.5kw motor with a variable speed drive, and a 2 speed clutch arrangement.

I paid $125 for the 5hp Baldor, plus VFD's are not that expensive. I think I will test the existing drive first before I start changing parts out. The CHNC4 motor is direct drive.[/i]