How to fit a tool into the spindle?
27 Nov 2018 10:36 #121459
by uptown47
How to fit a tool into the spindle? was created by uptown47
As you can probably tell by the title of this post I'm a complete beginner with CNC.
I've just built my own machine and I'm busy finalising / tweaking things ready for it's first run.
I've watched a lot of YouTube videos of fantastic pieces being made and they quite often change 'bits' during the cutting. Starting with a rougher bit and then changing to a finer bit and going over the whole thing again.
I've done some reading and I've read that the way to do that is to use two different G-codes. One for a course cut and then another for a finer cut. However, I was curious how you know the 'bit' is at the right height after you have swapped it?
Are you supposed to fit the tool as far as it will go into the spindle? Or is there a prescribed method to have the same amount of tool poking out the end of the spindle?
If I were to change the tool it would be easy to leave more sticking out than the previous tool and your cuts would therefore be deeper (assuming the Z axis moved to the same position)??
I'm sure there's a really simple answer to this and it's probably sooo simple they don't even mention it in YouTube videos but thought I'd ask how people get around this?
Thanks for any help you can give me.
I've just built my own machine and I'm busy finalising / tweaking things ready for it's first run.
I've watched a lot of YouTube videos of fantastic pieces being made and they quite often change 'bits' during the cutting. Starting with a rougher bit and then changing to a finer bit and going over the whole thing again.
I've done some reading and I've read that the way to do that is to use two different G-codes. One for a course cut and then another for a finer cut. However, I was curious how you know the 'bit' is at the right height after you have swapped it?
Are you supposed to fit the tool as far as it will go into the spindle? Or is there a prescribed method to have the same amount of tool poking out the end of the spindle?
If I were to change the tool it would be easy to leave more sticking out than the previous tool and your cuts would therefore be deeper (assuming the Z axis moved to the same position)??
I'm sure there's a really simple answer to this and it's probably sooo simple they don't even mention it in YouTube videos but thought I'd ask how people get around this?
Thanks for any help you can give me.
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27 Nov 2018 11:14 #121465
by Clive S
Replied by Clive S on topic How to fit a tool into the spindle?
Just do a quick google for tool touch off similar to this
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27 Nov 2018 11:46 #121469
by uptown47
Replied by uptown47 on topic How to fit a tool into the spindle?
That's great Clive. Thank you for posting it. Very much appreciated.
I'm at work at the moment but I've had a quick flick through and it looks ideal!
I'll sit and have a proper watch when I get home later.
Thanks again
John
I'm at work at the moment but I've had a quick flick through and it looks ideal!
I'll sit and have a proper watch when I get home later.
Thanks again
John
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27 Nov 2018 13:30 #121470
by andypugh
This is a more complicated subject than it might at first appear.
I think that from your question we can assume that your spindle uses a collet rather than one of the quick change systems.
Many videos you will see on the internet will be using a spindle with a tapered socket and multiple tool-holders. With this type of tooling the tools are always at the same height as they were last time, and that tool length is stored in the tool table.
Here is a picture I found on the internet of a set of tools set up in their holders: goo.gl/images/9ecxcV As you can see each holder has an ER collet or similar, and the tools are clamped in to that.
If you have a collet built in to the end of your spindle then it is a bit more dfficult.
You can fit collars on the tools so that they always go in to the same depth.
You can set up an automated tool probing system to measure the actual tool length after you have changed tool.
Solid collets exist that will always engage at the same length ( www.cutwel.co.uk/tool-holding/tool-holde...s/shrink-fit-collets ) though the ones at that link are shrink-fit so need an induction heater to change bits.
The most practical solution for a new build is probably to split your machining into a single tool per program, then fit the second tool, touch-off accurately, then run the second program.
Replied by andypugh on topic How to fit a tool into the spindle?
If I were to change the tool it would be easy to leave more sticking out than the previous tool and your cuts would therefore be deeper (assuming the Z axis moved to the same position)??
This is a more complicated subject than it might at first appear.
I think that from your question we can assume that your spindle uses a collet rather than one of the quick change systems.
Many videos you will see on the internet will be using a spindle with a tapered socket and multiple tool-holders. With this type of tooling the tools are always at the same height as they were last time, and that tool length is stored in the tool table.
Here is a picture I found on the internet of a set of tools set up in their holders: goo.gl/images/9ecxcV As you can see each holder has an ER collet or similar, and the tools are clamped in to that.
If you have a collet built in to the end of your spindle then it is a bit more dfficult.
You can fit collars on the tools so that they always go in to the same depth.
You can set up an automated tool probing system to measure the actual tool length after you have changed tool.
Solid collets exist that will always engage at the same length ( www.cutwel.co.uk/tool-holding/tool-holde...s/shrink-fit-collets ) though the ones at that link are shrink-fit so need an induction heater to change bits.
The most practical solution for a new build is probably to split your machining into a single tool per program, then fit the second tool, touch-off accurately, then run the second program.
The following user(s) said Thank You: uptown47
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27 Nov 2018 13:42 #121473
by uptown47
Hi Andy
Thanks for the great info (as always )
Yes, my spindle uses a collet. It's one of the Chinese spindles from eBay.
I was actually just reading about the importance of Home switches and the different types etc. and an interesting point was that if (for any reason) you need to hit the e-stop, your machine will run out of position (through inertia) and then Home switches become invaluable for getting your machine back to a "known" position for the software.
What you say makes perfect sense to just have separate programs with different tools and just re-home inbetween programs. I'll probably just make a simple 'jig' in order to judge tool depth in the collet to try and get it as accurate as possible.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer. It's appreciated
Replied by uptown47 on topic How to fit a tool into the spindle?
If I were to change the tool it would be easy to leave more sticking out than the previous tool and your cuts would therefore be deeper (assuming the Z axis moved to the same position)??
This is a more complicated subject than it might at first appear.
I think that from your question we can assume that your spindle uses a collet rather than one of the quick change systems.
Many videos you will see on the internet will be using a spindle with a tapered socket and multiple tool-holders. With this type of tooling the tools are always at the same height as they were last time, and that tool length is stored in the tool table.
Here is a picture I found on the internet of a set of tools set up in their holders: goo.gl/images/9ecxcV As you can see each holder has an ER collet or similar, and the tools are clamped in to that.
If you have a collet built in to the end of your spindle then it is a bit more dfficult.
You can fit collars on the tools so that they always go in to the same depth.
You can set up an automated tool probing system to measure the actual tool length after you have changed tool.
Solid collets exist that will always engage at the same length ( www.cutwel.co.uk/tool-holding/tool-holde...s/shrink-fit-collets ) though the ones at that link are shrink-fit so need an induction heater to change bits.
The most practical solution for a new build is probably to split your machining into a single tool per program, then fit the second tool, touch-off accurately, then run the second program.
Hi Andy
Thanks for the great info (as always )
Yes, my spindle uses a collet. It's one of the Chinese spindles from eBay.
I was actually just reading about the importance of Home switches and the different types etc. and an interesting point was that if (for any reason) you need to hit the e-stop, your machine will run out of position (through inertia) and then Home switches become invaluable for getting your machine back to a "known" position for the software.
What you say makes perfect sense to just have separate programs with different tools and just re-home inbetween programs. I'll probably just make a simple 'jig' in order to judge tool depth in the collet to try and get it as accurate as possible.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer. It's appreciated
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27 Nov 2018 14:01 #121474
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic How to fit a tool into the spindle?
You shouldn't need to re-home between tools.
The easiest way to "touch off" is the way that JT described years ago, and which I have copied. Take an accurate dowel (I use a one of my large collection of broken milling cutters, though there is probably a good argument for using something slightly softer).
Assuming that your G-code is set up with Z=0 at the top of the stock, jog the new tool down to a bit less than the dowel diameter from the stock, and then jog _up_ until the dowel will slip under the tool. Jogging down towards the dowel is a good way to chip a tool.
Then "touch off" to tell the system that you are now at the dowel diameter above the reference height. I use a 6mm dowel, so enter 6mm.
For a machine like yours it _probably_ makes sense to keep the tool table all-zeros, and to "touch off" directly in to the work coordinate system.
There are ways to configure LinuxCNC for auto-tool length measurement, and someone has also found a very clever way to allow auto tool changes with your style of spindle. by using the power of the X and Y axes to make a circular move to loosen the collet.
The easiest way to "touch off" is the way that JT described years ago, and which I have copied. Take an accurate dowel (I use a one of my large collection of broken milling cutters, though there is probably a good argument for using something slightly softer).
Assuming that your G-code is set up with Z=0 at the top of the stock, jog the new tool down to a bit less than the dowel diameter from the stock, and then jog _up_ until the dowel will slip under the tool. Jogging down towards the dowel is a good way to chip a tool.
Then "touch off" to tell the system that you are now at the dowel diameter above the reference height. I use a 6mm dowel, so enter 6mm.
For a machine like yours it _probably_ makes sense to keep the tool table all-zeros, and to "touch off" directly in to the work coordinate system.
There are ways to configure LinuxCNC for auto-tool length measurement, and someone has also found a very clever way to allow auto tool changes with your style of spindle. by using the power of the X and Y axes to make a circular move to loosen the collet.
The following user(s) said Thank You: uptown47
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27 Nov 2018 16:29 #121478
by uptown47
Wow!! That gif on that page is mesmorising (and ingenious!!).
I think something like that is well into the future! I've not even touched the tool on to any wood yet
Thanks for the advice re: touch off. I'll certainly do something like that initially whilst I continue to get my home switches installed etc.
Cheers Andy
John
Replied by uptown47 on topic How to fit a tool into the spindle?
You shouldn't need to re-home between tools.
The easiest way to "touch off" is the way that JT described years ago, and which I have copied. Take an accurate dowel (I use a one of my large collection of broken milling cutters, though there is probably a good argument for using something slightly softer).
Assuming that your G-code is set up with Z=0 at the top of the stock, jog the new tool down to a bit less than the dowel diameter from the stock, and then jog _up_ until the dowel will slip under the tool. Jogging down towards the dowel is a good way to chip a tool.
Then "touch off" to tell the system that you are now at the dowel diameter above the reference height. I use a 6mm dowel, so enter 6mm.
For a machine like yours it _probably_ makes sense to keep the tool table all-zeros, and to "touch off" directly in to the work coordinate system.
There are ways to configure LinuxCNC for auto-tool length measurement, and someone has also found a very clever way to allow auto tool changes with your style of spindle. by using the power of the X and Y axes to make a circular move to loosen the collet.
Wow!! That gif on that page is mesmorising (and ingenious!!).
I think something like that is well into the future! I've not even touched the tool on to any wood yet
Thanks for the advice re: touch off. I'll certainly do something like that initially whilst I continue to get my home switches installed etc.
Cheers Andy
John
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