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New-to-me mill retrofit (Mostly control electronic questions/confirmation)
25 Jan 2021 04:03 #196504
by DHeineck
Hey guys,
Long time reader as I waited for the right opportunity to buy a machine, which just happened. I recently picked up an obscure Folken M3400E minimill with dead drive electronics, which needed modernization anyways. The BLDC servos are unlabeled but if I did the math off the spec sheet, it's a 1000 line encoder. I have a set of AMC DR101EE20A8BDCA drives that I was going to use with the power supply, which, has a number of inputs. It would seem the step/dir would be my best choice.
At the moment I'll be using the also-supplied NSK Astro-E spindle, which I understand needs 0-10V for speed and driven through a couple 24V logic controls for direction and enable. In the near future, I expect to get/build a different spindle setup. I would like to retain/side mount the NSK spindle for where it's best (high rpm micromachining applications), albeit not to be used simultaneous the other spindle, so some sort of switch on the 0-10V would be a definite possibility.
Touch probing of some sort and tool length measurement are definitely happening soon. End goal would be to add linear scales and a 4th axis, but I'll address these later.
Questions:
1.) What control board is recommended? Starting off that's some limit/home switches, microswitch for tool length probe, a couple relays/fets to run the spindle, 3 channels of step/direction, and the appropriate controls for 0-10V spindle. But want to design around anticipated expansion.
2.) Does it make sense to bring the rotary encoder back to LinuxCNC or treat the drive controllers as "super steppers" since they have their own control logic?
2.) Any recommendations for a decent 0.6-1 kw 6k-10k rpm motor/drive combo (compact/lightweight) to belt drive a Finley er16 spindle that I got for a screaming deal? Ideally I'll have a 2 belt ratios for up to 15K (single flute small bit stuff)
Thanks,
Daniel
finleyprecisionspindles.com/36-air-motor...-belt-drive-spindle/
www.nsk-nakanishi.co.jp/industrial-eng/d...E_Rev_3_E400_500.pdf
Long time reader as I waited for the right opportunity to buy a machine, which just happened. I recently picked up an obscure Folken M3400E minimill with dead drive electronics, which needed modernization anyways. The BLDC servos are unlabeled but if I did the math off the spec sheet, it's a 1000 line encoder. I have a set of AMC DR101EE20A8BDCA drives that I was going to use with the power supply, which, has a number of inputs. It would seem the step/dir would be my best choice.
At the moment I'll be using the also-supplied NSK Astro-E spindle, which I understand needs 0-10V for speed and driven through a couple 24V logic controls for direction and enable. In the near future, I expect to get/build a different spindle setup. I would like to retain/side mount the NSK spindle for where it's best (high rpm micromachining applications), albeit not to be used simultaneous the other spindle, so some sort of switch on the 0-10V would be a definite possibility.
Touch probing of some sort and tool length measurement are definitely happening soon. End goal would be to add linear scales and a 4th axis, but I'll address these later.
Questions:
1.) What control board is recommended? Starting off that's some limit/home switches, microswitch for tool length probe, a couple relays/fets to run the spindle, 3 channels of step/direction, and the appropriate controls for 0-10V spindle. But want to design around anticipated expansion.
2.) Does it make sense to bring the rotary encoder back to LinuxCNC or treat the drive controllers as "super steppers" since they have their own control logic?
2.) Any recommendations for a decent 0.6-1 kw 6k-10k rpm motor/drive combo (compact/lightweight) to belt drive a Finley er16 spindle that I got for a screaming deal? Ideally I'll have a 2 belt ratios for up to 15K (single flute small bit stuff)
Thanks,
Daniel
finleyprecisionspindles.com/36-air-motor...-belt-drive-spindle/
www.nsk-nakanishi.co.jp/industrial-eng/d...E_Rev_3_E400_500.pdf
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25 Jan 2021 09:23 #196511
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic New-to-me mill retrofit (Mostly control electronic questions/confirmation)
I think I would suggest starting with a parallel port and cheap BoB. It probably won't be the final configuration, but it will get things moving while you work out which direction you want to take.
This obviously only works if your control PC has a parallel port, or at least a motherboard header for one. I wouldn't suggest choosing a new PC on that basis.
This obviously only works if your control PC has a parallel port, or at least a motherboard header for one. I wouldn't suggest choosing a new PC on that basis.
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27 Jan 2021 06:01 #196702
by DHeineck
Replied by DHeineck on topic New-to-me mill retrofit (Mostly control electronic questions/confirmation)
Thanks Andy, and hard to disagree with the incremental approach -- unfortunately my free-to-me computer lacks a parallel port, so I'll need to get a pcie parallel card (I'll double check to get the right chipsets) plus a BoB.
Not sure if there's a semi-decent equivalent to a parallel port + BoB other than jumping up to the ~$200 class for 7i96e or 5i25/7i76 combo. From my perusing that looks like the best set of combos to get me out the door, and then worry about whatever crazy expansion in IO I might need later. But, alas those are presently OOS. So here we are.
Not sure if there's a semi-decent equivalent to a parallel port + BoB other than jumping up to the ~$200 class for 7i96e or 5i25/7i76 combo. From my perusing that looks like the best set of combos to get me out the door, and then worry about whatever crazy expansion in IO I might need later. But, alas those are presently OOS. So here we are.
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27 Jan 2021 14:32 #196767
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic New-to-me mill retrofit (Mostly control electronic questions/confirmation)
It makes no sense to get an actual p-port card (unless you think that you might want to use the Pico cards and drives)
So you could start with just a 5i25 or 6i25 and hook it up to a cheap BoB. They work perfectly well as a p-port-on-steroids.
But then you might decide that you want to go Ethernet. Or use something that only works on the 50-pin cards. The 6i24 is probably the best bang-for-the-buck as far as pins go (72 GPIO pins), but that is a different Mesa ecosystem.
(I have a 6i24 + 7i49 on my lathe, as I am using Resolvers)
So you could start with just a 5i25 or 6i25 and hook it up to a cheap BoB. They work perfectly well as a p-port-on-steroids.
But then you might decide that you want to go Ethernet. Or use something that only works on the 50-pin cards. The 6i24 is probably the best bang-for-the-buck as far as pins go (72 GPIO pins), but that is a different Mesa ecosystem.
(I have a 6i24 + 7i49 on my lathe, as I am using Resolvers)
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27 Jan 2021 18:07 #196793
by DHeineck
Replied by DHeineck on topic New-to-me mill retrofit (Mostly control electronic questions/confirmation)
Andy -- that's brilliant, greatly appreciated. For some reason it hadn't registered that I can use the the (5/6)i25 with a BoB rather than the dedicated daughterboards.
Let me have a closer look at the 50 pin ecosystem as well. The 7i52S looks like it's awfully close (minus the 0-10V signal, but a daughter-daughter board to buffer a pwm).
Let me have a closer look at the 50 pin ecosystem as well. The 7i52S looks like it's awfully close (minus the 0-10V signal, but a daughter-daughter board to buffer a pwm).
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27 Jan 2021 21:15 #196814
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic New-to-me mill retrofit (Mostly control electronic questions/confirmation)
Have a look at 7i96.
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31 Jan 2021 03:52 #197201
by DHeineck
Replied by DHeineck on topic New-to-me mill retrofit (Mostly control electronic questions/confirmation)
Okay, well, I've successfully driven myself mad, and it looks like Mesa replenished stock.
Would something like the 7i96+7i85s+spinx1 cover my bases?
Seems like it has enough pins to cover 4 axes of step/dir + encoders + 0-10V spindle and plenty of I/O still around for limit switches, a few relays and probing.
It's essentially the same cost as a 7i76e by itself, which is ultimately more expandable, but I'd end up on a 7i76e+7i85s anyways and not use all the I/O.
Even though the computer will sit in the same place as the electronics, having this networked will ensure that I'm not beholden to whatever computer I may end up with (I'm using an old computer, who knows how long it'll last). That's getting me to lean away from a 5/6i25 solution unless there's clear advantages that I'm missing.
Thank you all!
Daniel
Would something like the 7i96+7i85s+spinx1 cover my bases?
Seems like it has enough pins to cover 4 axes of step/dir + encoders + 0-10V spindle and plenty of I/O still around for limit switches, a few relays and probing.
It's essentially the same cost as a 7i76e by itself, which is ultimately more expandable, but I'd end up on a 7i76e+7i85s anyways and not use all the I/O.
Even though the computer will sit in the same place as the electronics, having this networked will ensure that I'm not beholden to whatever computer I may end up with (I'm using an old computer, who knows how long it'll last). That's getting me to lean away from a 5/6i25 solution unless there's clear advantages that I'm missing.
Thank you all!
Daniel
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31 Jan 2021 05:55 #197204
by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic New-to-me mill retrofit (Mostly control electronic questions/confirmation)
Or use a 7i76e with spindle control and the 7i85s
or do it all in one card with a 7i95
or do it all in one card with a 7i95
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08 Feb 2021 00:13 #197960
by DHeineck
Replied by DHeineck on topic New-to-me mill retrofit (Mostly control electronic questions/confirmation)
Thanks, Rod. The 7i95 and 7i96 were unknown to me before this thread. I went with the 7i95, and will eventually need to configure it (with some extra hardware) for a 0-10V output to drive the spindle controller, but I've got plenty to keep me busy until that becomes the biggest hold-up.
And thanks to everyone for your recommendations!
And thanks to everyone for your recommendations!
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