How complex retro fit is a Fanuc O-M Alpha red cap controller to LinuxCNC

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20 Jan 2023 14:40 #262496 by new2linux
Fanuc O-M controller on a YCM 1995 (Supermax2); What would be required for Mesa hardware, and how complex of a retro fit would this be? What has accrued is the parameters & diagnostic data was not backed up, and so I went back to the machine builder for this data who have helped a great deal, but now there are a few (3 lines) that will not save in the diagnostic area as shown on the file received from the machine builder. The rs232 port would not work, so all parameters were keyed in & checked many times until prefect. Fanuc wants to send a service person out.
The model of controller is an early AC Alpha drive, the spindle has an encoder for ridget tapping, 20 position umbrella toolholder, 25"x16"x24" travel. This had some nice options in its day.
After cutting a new tooling plate/baseplate, I would like to bolt on a hi-speed single phase spindle to use small .032" diameter end mills to the front of the BT-40 spindle and run on single phase. The current way it works, as soon as the power is "on" from the back main panel, the spindle motor runs a fan all the time.
Many thanks, all suggestions are warmly welcomed.

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20 Jan 2023 16:28 #262503 by andypugh
Do you know what control signal the drives take?
What is the position feedback?
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20 Jan 2023 17:03 #262506 by new2linux
angypugh, many thanks for your help. I have a set of manuals that came with the machine when new, there is a more recent manual with the spindle servo information, the spindle has a fiber optic part that converts the fiber to a wire (for lack of better term) that plugs in a spindle servo drive. There is an additional belt driven encoder, low on the spindle.

The mill when I received it, need cables plugged back in their proper locations, I posted this question and part of the response was this:

" You need to open a power connector at the motor and see what color is soldered to pin A. That will be your U wire. Pin B will be the V wire, and Pin C will be the W wire. Pin D will be ground (green with yellow or white)."

This information was used to re-attach the wires to the bottom of the servo amplifier. Across the top of the 3 modules are the AC (buss bar, looking) input, suppose to be 100 volts AC. This is also the current problem and may be related to the parameters & diagnostic data that was not input so perfectly.

andypugh, I don't believe this is what you have asked, but I am going to do what is necessary to make this work out or find the information to your question. Is there an area of the manuals this is listed or the term to be looking for in the manuals, or is this not in the manuals, be as specific as possible? What I have found is this early group of AC style of power supply is very specif about what parts are interchangeable with what models.

Many thanks

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20 Jan 2023 17:34 #262509 by andypugh
If the servo motor has UVW connectors then it is three-phase and probably a brushless motor, with commutation provided by the encoder.

Do you have the encoder part numbers?

The fibre-optic part would concern me, I don't think anyone has managed to reverse engineer that protocol for LinuxCNC yet.
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20 Jan 2023 19:07 - 20 Jan 2023 19:09 #262517 by new2linux
andypugh, thanks. You don't care what encoder I have p/n for, I think the easy one is the belt driven spindle encoder, looks like a small enclosed electric motor. If this does not work, I will try to get inside one of the motors for the encoder info.

The fiber optic part (the wire tie is around it, the black wire looking to the right is the fiber part) pic is attached, if the electric cable the goes to this was longer, it would not be needed. What would I miss, as far as fetchers, if I did not worry about spindle position because of the optic part? The optic part label reads; Optical I/O Link, Type: A13B-0154-B001, No. N4284 1994 12; Fanuc.

Many thanks
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Last edit: 20 Jan 2023 19:09 by new2linux. Reason: spelling

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21 Jan 2023 03:44 #262545 by sivaraj

Fanuc O-M controller on a YCM 1995 (Supermax2); What would be required for Mesa hardware, and how complex of a retro fit would this be? What has accrued is the parameters & diagnostic data was not backed up, and so I went back to the machine builder for this data who have helped a great deal, but now there are a few (3 lines) that will not save in the diagnostic area as shown on the file received from the machine builder. The rs232 port would not work, so all parameters were keyed in & checked many times until prefect. Fanuc wants to send a service person out.
The model of controller is an early AC Alpha drive, the spindle has an encoder for ridget tapping, 20 position umbrella toolholder, 25"x16"x24" travel. This had some nice options in its day.
After cutting a new tooling plate/baseplate, I would like to bolt on a hi-speed single phase spindle to use small .032" diameter end mills to the front of the BT-40 spindle and run on single phase. The current way it works, as soon as the power is "on" from the back main panel, the spindle motor runs a fan all the time.
Many thanks, all suggestions are warmly welcomed.
 

If the system comes ON and no fault LEDs on drives it should be easily fixable.
I assume something is wrong with the diagnosis parameter.
With Fanuc 0, the ladder program allocates area for  Timers, Counter, Keep Relays & Data Tables used by the machine builder.
This will be defined in the diagnostics area 300~600
Do you have ladder diagram printout first page ?
What kind of alarm do you have?
Is it a Fanuc alarm or Machine logic alarm
Which diagnostic parameter are you not able to set ?
Can you see the ladder diagram on screen?
After initialized/clear memory , First you need to set 900 series parameters and P38 for Keyboard & I/O device (RS232)
After this you should restart and enter remaining parameters and diagnostics data.
If you are able to switch to EDIT mode, the loading parameter from PC should work with appropriate parameter setup.
For Servo and Spindle parameter you can initialize parameter using the motor code from the manual
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21 Jan 2023 14:34 #262583 by new2linux
sivaraj, many, many thanks! The 401 alarm (VRDY OFF) is the current alarm. There is no 100 volt AC at Terminal strip T1, Terminals 5 and 6. Yes, the ladder diagram, parameters & diagnoses will appear on-screen.
What you say about the 900 series parameters need to be loaded 1st & P38 requirements; sounds correct, I was not asked (nice to know this) to do this 1st then the RS232 will work. Is it your opinion to start from a fresh blank memory and reload the .OMC & .DNC files for the parameters and diagnostics data? So I need to un-power the battery backup and allow the machine to set for 20 seconds?
P38 is this the line? N0038 P 00001000

These are the lines that were difficult. The line 304 needs to be 00000011; 309 needs to be 00000001; 314 needs to be 00000000, if you key in the correct value it will not accept or
save.

The last suggestion was to check all the limit switches to see if any are stuck because it appears to be e-stop related, I plan to review this unless you suggest to clear memory and I try the parameters and diagnostics data again.This is the 900 code I have, there are all 0s after line 921. (I was looking for a better way to post this)
                                                                                                                        
N0900 P 00111001
N0901 P 01000100
N0902 P 00100000
N0903 P 10010000
N0904 P 00000000
N0905 P 00101000
N0906 P 00000000
N0907 P 01010100
N0908 P 00000000
N0909 P 01000011
N0910 P 00010010
N0911 P 00000100
N0912 P 00000000
N0913 P 10000000
N0914 P 00000000
N0915 P 00100000
N0916 P 00000100
N0917 P 00000010
N0918 P 00000000
N0919 P 00000000
N0920 P 00000000
N0921 P 00000001
Many thanks!

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22 Jan 2023 14:36 #262660 by new2linux
andypugh, thank you for your help. The spindle has a belt driven "Positioncoder" with this information on the label: A860-0309-T302; No. ZA-0251669 120605; N1018523. This "coder" cable, plugs in the bottom of the spindle servo amplifier, the cable (a real set of wires) to the optical device plugs in to the same spindle servo amplifier, at a different location.
I have not had access to the x, y or z servo encoder, it looks like the z or x axis (are the easier motor to access) motor will need to be removed to get to see the encoder, I will do that if the above information is not acceptable.
The best I could hope for would be if the spindle motor could be disconnected after finishing the "baseplate" with hope is to mount a hi-speed single phase spindle to the end of the BT-40 machine spindle, even if it required a (properly sized) static-phase converter (vs. the 10HP RPC).

Many thanks, all suggestions are warmly welcomed.

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22 Jan 2023 22:19 - 22 Jan 2023 22:20 #262681 by new2linux
sivaraj, thanks! Over the weekend, I have used the Reset & Delete while pressing Power On button to delete and start new. Now, I have the flashing LSK then using a verified correct cable (the other cable was straight through) but was unable to transfer data.
I keyed in the 900s and the P38 as; N0038 P 00001000 as stated. Is this the correct approach? The LSK needs a certain way (the "real key=1" & in MDI not Edit & PWE=1) to start, but at the end when PC sending says all sent the LSK will continue to flash, no way back to PWE to make = 0, so never saves, or never arrived, so use Off/On, on panel.
I have new rs232 ends to make new cable ordered, the current is molded end and I cut off old used end & used a solder on, "tests ok" with ohm meter to the proper "pin out" this weekend. There are a few limit switches that I have not checked.
Wondering your thoughts or suggestions?

Many thanks!
Last edit: 22 Jan 2023 22:20 by new2linux.

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23 Jan 2023 03:30 - 23 Jan 2023 06:00 #262700 by sivaraj

sivaraj, many, many thanks! The 401 alarm (VRDY OFF) is the current alarm. There is no 100 volt AC at Terminal strip T1, Terminals 5 and 6. Yes, the ladder diagram, parameters & diagnoses will appear on-screen.
What you say about the 900 series parameters need to be loaded 1st & P38 requirements; sounds correct, I was not asked (nice to know this) to do this 1st then the RS232 will work. Is it your opinion to start from a fresh blank memory and reload the .OMC & .DNC files for the parameters and diagnostics data? So I need to un-power the battery backup and allow the machine to set for 20 seconds?
P38 is this the line? N0038 P 00001000

These are the lines that were difficult. The line 304 needs to be 00000011; 309 needs to be 00000001; 314 needs to be 00000000, if you key in the correct value it will not accept or
save.
 

Sorry for delay in reply due to week end

I suspect Emergency Circuit problem ,
Either Emergency limit switch struck or the wire broke .
Please trace the input wiring of X021.4 in Electrical circuit and PLC logic for G121.4 in ladder.
Usually G121.4 will have ladder logic which will power On the supply to drives

I assume inputs values on D300/D305/D310/D315 are timer values.
Only D300/D305/D310/D315 values you can set.
The Next 4 values of timers datas are controlled by the PLC ladder program .
You may not be able to write these values.Just ignore it

The Parameter N0038 P 00001000 says you have a Full Keyboard.
Can you please check where the RS232 port cable is connected in CNC Connector (M5 or M74)
Accordingly we need to set the device and communication parameter.
Fanuc default protocol is 4800, E, 7, 2 ( Parameter 552/553=10)
To upload/download parameters from PC using data Punch IN or OUT
1) CNC should be in EDIT mode
2) PWE=1 and
3)Edit key should be in ON only for diagnosis data input.
If Edit mode is not possible, the only option is to enter the parameters by manual input in MDI mode.

I have enclosed pages from Fanuc Manual for your reference

As you have cleared the parameter now I will request enter the parameter list manually.
After fixing the Emergency Stop circuit issue you may chase the RS 232 I/O issue.
1).First enter 900 series parameters (900~921) and P38.
2). Power Off and On
3).Enter the parameters 0~900
4).Enter Servo parameter
you can do this in DGNOS/PARAM button >SV-PRM soft key
or
in parameter 8n00 & 8n20~8n24
Set values of 8n20~8n24 and 8n00=00 (Initial setting of digital servo parameter is done)
n=1,2,3 , three axis
5).Enter Spindle Parameter
Set the motor model code from the parameter  list >parameter No 6633
Automatic parameter initialization function Parameter 6519 bit #7 =1

Step 4&5 will initialize the servo/spindle parameter.
Later restart and verify 65xx & 8nxx with list
6).Enter Diagnostics Parameters
Hope this helps
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Last edit: 23 Jan 2023 06:00 by sivaraj. Reason: typo and format
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