Missing Parameters in Spindle Setup section

I seem to be missing setup options when I get to the spindle screen. This is my third retrofit so I recall having to update pncconf in the past... Started with a fresh Linuxcnc install from the .iso. Updated to 2.7.11, so it should have the latest pncconf right?

This is the screen I have.... notice no DAC options, and I dont think the resulting HAL file is closed with the encoder. IDK, its doing weird stuff...

This is what i think I want with the DAC ... Is this a newer version of pncconf? Do I need to change an earlier selection to get these options?


NOTE: Both these screenshots were grabbed off google, My machine PC is not online and this should be enough to show what I mean. Using a 5i25 and 7i77. SPindle is connected to Encoder 0 and Analog0

Please help, thanks! Paul

Dont know about the pncconf spindle options but with a 7I77 you dont want to use analog 0 for the spindle
analog out 5 is the suggested spindle output

What spindle options do you think are missing?

Well I think I am missing the DAC options like shown on the first screenshot. What I see is the simpler screen, screenshot Spindle-2.png. I can open the motor test window, and it gives me "some" DAC inputs but they disappear once the test screen is closed and seem to be lost in the the general spindle setup. The PID loop also does not seem to function, but it should same as any other servo unless I am mistaken. Notice on the Spindle-2 screenshot the 120,000rpm setting that can not be changed?

My analog scale is all screwwy when created through Pncconf with the settings screen I have available. Using a multimeter to check the A0 output is correct between 0 and 10V but without DAC settings I can't set the offset. i.e. at 0 rpm I am at .25V. I can chnage settings in the drive to accomodate but I believe thats what the DAC offset is for also. And the PID loop should adjust A0 for unwanted spindle rotation too. Even though in Pncconf I set Max rpm 2000 (Ive done a bunch of research and even changed the setting manually in the HAL file as others have done in threads but no change) S001-S010 (MDI rpm commands) basically run my A0 from 0-10V. Its like Pncconf is not dividing the 10V up over the 2000rpm range.

Really I have a feeling if the spindle screen had all the settings like -config.png shows it might work fine.

Why is Analog 5 recomended? A0 seems to function just fine...

Thanks

Unlike the servo outputs (analog 0,4) analog 5 has a independent enable so it is suitable for spindle control use.


The full scale setting is done by setting the maxscale hardware parameter (and the min/maxlimits)
so for example if you have a 2000 RPM spindle, setting maxscale to 2000 and setting the min/max limits to
-2000, 2000 will scale the +-2000 spindle speed command from linuxCNC to a +-10V analog output

If you have a .25V offset at 0 commanded speed, you have broken/ misconnected hardware

Also it's unusual to have a 0 commanded speed with the spindle enabled (unless you have spindle
orient for a tool changer) Normally the spindle drive would be disabled at this point (by 7I77 ENA5)

Good to know on the A0 vs A5.

I have setup the min/max limits as you suggested and still no good. I am reasonably confident in my hardware setup, but the scale just is off. My HW does not account for why the output Analog scale is full range from 0-10rpm does it? Sounds more like a LCNC and setting file issue.

But back to the first question on the Pncconf, what is the difference between how one user got one screen and another the other? I want to first make sure I have the correct software settings and updates.

I recall using the 5i25 previously and needing to copy over the config files from Mesa's website. Is this still needed? I was thinking since that was years ago, that Pncconf has been updated to include all those files already.

The current pncconf looks like spindle-2.png
You do not need any auxiliary files, you just select "use internal data"

I just tried the latest version and it sets up all the parameters correctly

Note that if a spindle encoder is present, the current pncconf sets up closed loop spindle control _but_ the default
PID settings are open loop (FF0=1 everything else = 0 which means the PID output is just a copy of the PID command)


( INI FILE SECTION )
#********************
# Spindle
#********************
[SPINDLE_9]
P = 0.0
I = 0.0
D = 0.0
FF0 = 1.0
FF1 = 0.0
FF2 = 0.0
BIAS = 0.0
DEADBAND = 0.0
MAX_OUTPUT = 2000.0
ENCODER_SCALE = 4000.0
OUTPUT_SCALE = 2000
OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT = -2000
OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT = 2000


(HAL FILE SECTION)
#*******************
# SPINDLE S
#*******************

setp pid.s.Pgain [SPINDLE_9]P
setp pid.s.Igain [SPINDLE_9]I
setp pid.s.Dgain [SPINDLE_9]D
setp pid.s.bias [SPINDLE_9]BIAS
setp pid.s.FF0 [SPINDLE_9]FF0
setp pid.s.FF1 [SPINDLE_9]FF1
setp pid.s.FF2 [SPINDLE_9]FF2
setp pid.s.deadband [SPINDLE_9]DEADBAND
setp pid.s.maxoutput [SPINDLE_9]MAX_OUTPUT
setp pid.s.error-previous-target true

net spindle-index-enable <=> pid.s.index-enable
net spindle-enable => pid.s.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm => pid.s.command
net spindle-vel-fb-rpm => pid.s.feedback
net spindle-output <= pid.s.output

# ---PWM Generator signals/setup---

setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-scalemax [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_SCALE
setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-minlim [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_MIN_LIMIT
setp hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5-maxlim [SPINDLE_9]OUTPUT_MAX_LIMIT

net spindle-output => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.analogout5
net spindle-enable => hm2_5i25.0.7i77.0.1.spinena

Well things are working a lot better now... I think it had a lot to do with the encoder setting, but I did switch the Analog out 5. I truthfully don't know exactly. This factory system has an encoder on the spindle motor and a second encoder on the chuck after the gear box (so I thought) . Both go back to the drive and the drive has a differential output. Using the HAL meter I could see the encoder.velocity.0 was much different than actual chuck rpm by using a tachometer. I adjusted the encoder settings to get the rpm I was seeing and that has gotten things closer. Really the only thing that changed was analog 5 and more sleep as compared to last night. Thanks for your help!

What would be some starting values for PID for a 7.5kw servo spindle drive? I put in 10.0 for P (and nothing else for I and D) and the spindle started to run away. Any ideas?

Is your spindle 0 --> +10 or -10V --> +10?

Backwards spindle encoder scale can cause runaway

Encoder position should increase by 1 for each turn in the positive direction (M3 direction)