1. Configuring LinuxCNC
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  5. universal Mesa set for various cnc machines

universal Mesa set for various cnc machines

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01 Nov 2013 06:09 #40472 by Boogie
universal Mesa set for various cnc machines was created by Boogie
Hi,

need some advice guys. I have a cnc router, some mill machine under cnc conversion, and who knows what more to control via linuxcnc. Due to limited budget i decided to buy getting-started-Mesa-set to be able to use one Mesa fpga+daughter card set for different machines just by changing few connectors and use another config files. Of course only one machine can be operated at a time in this way but it will work for me.

What you think about 5i25 anything card and 7i85S daughter card for max 4 STEP/DIR or PWM/DIR pairs of signals, and max 4 encoders inputs. I assume this set is good for configurations like:
1. mill machine/router: 3 axes (XYZ) STEP/DIR (or PWM/DIR) + 3 encoders for XYZ + 1 MPG encoder
2. mill machine/router: 4 axes (XYZA) STEP/DIR (or PWM/DIR) + 4 encoders for XYZA
3. lathe: 2 axes (XZ) STEP/DIR (or PWM/DIR) + 2 encoders for XZ + 1 spindle encoder + 1 MPG encoder

Ok, since 5i25 and 7i85S are connected together via LPT 25 pin cable there is second connector on 5i25 (on ribbon cable style connector) for... what? How can I connect all the rest signals (homes, limits, touch probe,...) via this connector? Is there any cheap breakout board available?
7i85S manual says there is additional RS-422 interface for serial devices. Do you know better configurations (5i25 + xxxx daugter card)?
I choosed 7i85S because I need PWM/DIR to drive cheap H-bridges and DC servo motors.

And the most important this: are my assumptions regarding 5i25+7i85S ok?

Any ideas?

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01 Nov 2013 06:31 #40474 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic universal Mesa set for various cnc machines

What you think about 5i25 anything card and 7i85S daughter card for max 4 STEP/DIR or PWM/DIR pairs of signals, and max 4 encoders inputs. I assume this set is good for configurations like:
1. mill machine/router: 3 axes (XYZ) STEP/DIR (or PWM/DIR) + 3 encoders for XYZ + 1 MPG encoder
2. mill machine/router: 4 axes (XYZA) STEP/DIR (or PWM/DIR) + 4 encoders for XYZA
3. lathe: 2 axes (XZ) STEP/DIR (or PWM/DIR) + 2 encoders for XZ + 1 spindle encoder + 1 MPG encoder


You might be able to do this without any switching.
You would have to work out what you needed, but to take a (rather expensive) setup as an example:
If you had a 5i25 + 7i76 + 7i77 you would have 5 sets of stepper controls and 6 sets of servo motor controls (pwm + encoder) and a load of GPIO for limit switches etc.
You could simply wire up all 9 axes permanently, and have a different set of INI and HAL files for each machine, with the HAL only connecting the required axes.
I have a similar setup on my machines. For example the mill/lathe has 4 stepper drivers, and in lathe config stepper drive 1 is Z, and 2 is X. The rest ar simply not connected to anything in HAL.
In Mill mode 1 is X, 2 is Y, 3 is Z and 4 is A.

If you want to drive H-bridges and steppers, then perhaps the answer is two 7i85s, one with stepgens on it, and one with pwmgens and encoders. You might need a custom firmware for that.
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01 Nov 2013 22:36 #40489 by Boogie
Replied by Boogie on topic universal Mesa set for various cnc machines
Thank you Andy,

This would be my first Mesa project and i'm also new to linuxcnc so making my own firmware is way beyond my abilities right now.
My main objective for now is to keep costs as low as possible. 5i25 + 7i85S set is $160 - very accepatable for me. The question is how to use the second connector on 5i25? DB25 connector is used to connect 7i85S. Is there any cheap Mesa general purpouse I/O card that can be connected to the second 5i25 connector (ribbon cable style connector)?
Is it possible to put 5i25+7i85S to my PC to control servomotors and use PCs LPT port to hook up limits, homes, etc without special custom firmware?

I also look at 7i73 Pendant/control panel interface. This is serial device so i understand that it can easily be connected to serial port od 7i85S. Do i need any special firmware for linuxcnc to make 7i73 work with pendant?

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01 Nov 2013 23:27 #40493 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic universal Mesa set for various cnc machines

This would be my first Mesa project and i'm also new to linuxcnc so making my own firmware is way beyond my abilities right now.

It is normally quite easy, you have to ask PCW nicely :-)

The question is how to use the second connector on 5i25? DB25 connector is used to connect 7i85S. Is there any cheap Mesa general purpouse I/O card that can be connected to the second 5i25 connector (ribbon cable style connector)?

You just need one of these: www.amazon.com/Parallel-Printer-Adapter-...=parallel+port+panel

I also look at 7i73 Pendant/control panel interface. This is serial device so i understand that it can easily be connected to serial port od 7i85S. Do i need any special firmware for linuxcnc to make 7i73 work with pendant?

You need a firmware with a smart-serial port on one set of terminals. It looks like the serial port connector on the 7i84S is exactly the same as on (for example) the 7i76. You have to know what you are looking for, but if you download the 5i25 support software from Mesa, and look in the configs / Hostmot2 folder, and then look at the 7i85Sx2 xml file, then it does have a smart-serial module.
So, yes I think that a 5i25 with the 7i85Sx2 firmware will allow you to connect a 7i73 or similar to each 7i85S, and it will "just work"

Looking further, 7i85Sx2 only has stepgens, encoders and smart-serial. If you want PWM then you may need a different firmware and the cards to match.

You might want to look through all the XML and PIN files in that software pack for the 5i25 / Hostmot2 package to see if any existing firmware offers the combination you need. (Some files have a .pin, some have a .xml, the information is the same). If there isn't, then it isn't an enormous problem, but it is easier if there is an existing config. The .pin and .xml files tell you what functions appear on each pin, and the name of the file tells you which daughter cards suit that firmware.
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06 Nov 2013 03:41 #40564 by Boogie
Replied by Boogie on topic universal Mesa set for various cnc machines
now i get it. It seems i just need for start:
- 5i25
- 7i85S
- parallel printer adapter for 5i25

and I'll be able to control:

- any XYZ or XYZA router/mill machine with encoders
- any lathe XZ+spindle control
(using PWM/DIR or STEP/DIR interfaced motor drivers)

Parallel printer adapter will allow to hook up any cheap breakout board to 5i25 to use its 17 inputs/outputs for limit switches, touch probe, ESD and homes.
Right?

All the listed things together are cheaper than Mach3 licence:)

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06 Nov 2013 06:08 #40565 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic universal Mesa set for various cnc machines

now i get it. It seems i just need for start:
- 5i25
- 7i85S
- parallel printer adapter for 5i25
and I'll be able to control:
- any XYZ or XYZA router/mill machine with encoders
- any lathe XZ+spindle control
(using PWM/DIR or STEP/DIR interfaced motor drivers)

Maybe, but be aware that switching firmwares on the 5i25 is not as trivial as on the 50-pin boards (like the 5i23). Those boards load firmware at every startup, so switching is no problem. The 5i25 needs tobe re-flashed, (and I think has a finite reflash life). It also needs to be fully power-cycled after each flash.
So, you need to have a firmware that supports all your requirements in one configuration. Have you found one that you think suits your needs?

Parallel printer adapter will allow to hook up any cheap breakout board to 5i25 to use its 17 inputs/outputs for limit switches, touch probe, ESD and homes.
Right?

Yes, though there are possibly more efficient ways to do it. For example the smart-serial connector on the 7i85S can have 48 IO pins interfaced through it. (using, for example, a 7i84 32-input 16-output card at 5V to 28V)

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06 Nov 2013 06:33 #40566 by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic universal Mesa set for various cnc machines

now i get it. It seems i just need for start:
- 5i25
- 7i85S
- parallel printer adapter for 5i25

and I'll be able to control:

- any XYZ or XYZA router/mill machine with encoders
- any lathe XZ+spindle control
(using PWM/DIR or STEP/DIR interfaced motor drivers)

Parallel printer adapter will allow to hook up any cheap breakout board to 5i25 to use its 17 inputs/outputs for limit switches, touch probe, ESD and homes.
Right?



Sure or you can not use the 7I85S at all and use two parallel port breakouts, though
common parallel port breakouts may not have good high speed inputs for encoders.

Note that as Andy says you may have to change the 5I25 firmware to choose
PWM/DIR or STEP/DIR outputs on a 7I85S for example.

(there's no real danger of wearing out the flash memory, its good for 10000 writes)

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07 Nov 2013 05:57 #40612 by Boogie
Replied by Boogie on topic universal Mesa set for various cnc machines
OMG! i didn't know 5i25 need to be flashed to change firware. I thought it is simply loaded at every startup. Now i know why there is so big difference in price.
Do i need any special programmer to flash 5i25? Is it complex?


My main machine would be vertical mill. It will take some significant amount of time to posses enough knowledge how to operate mill machine with g-codes under linuxcnc. Let's assume i will need to cofigure 5i25 to play with 7i85S (PWM/DIR) + some simple BOB. For now i won't use Mesas on other machines. Things are getting complicated so i need to start gradually, step by step.

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07 Nov 2013 06:18 #40613 by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic universal Mesa set for various cnc machines
Reflashing the 5I25 is easy, you just run a utility:

sudo ./mesaflash --device 5i25 --write bitfilename

and then cycle computer power
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08 Nov 2013 06:09 #40645 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic universal Mesa set for various cnc machines

OMG! i didn't know 5i25 need to be flashed to change firware. I thought it is simply loaded at every startup. Now i know why there is so big difference in price.
Do i need any special programmer to flash 5i25? Is it complex?

No, as PCW said, it only take a couple of minutes and is quite easy. I have done it a few times a night sometimes
However, that slight inconvenience is why I was suggesting trying to put together a firmware that has all the functions you need. In theory you could have a mixture of PWM and stepgen on the same 7i85S, it just needs a special firmware.

My main machine would be vertical mill. It will take some significant amount of time to posses enough knowledge how to operate mill machine with g-codes under linuxcnc. Let's assume i will need to cofigure 5i25 to play with 7i85S (PWM/DIR) + some simple BOB. For now i won't use Mesas on other machines. Things are getting complicated so i need to start gradually, step by step.

What you are suggesting to do isn't far from what I do with my combination mill. For example I use an output pin to switch a relay that swaps the VFD between the two spindle motors, depending on whether it is being a lathe or a mill. Then there are 4 active stepgens in one config, and only two in the other. (All with the same firmware, too)

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  1. Configuring LinuxCNC
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