high acceleration stepper motor selection?? (3D printer)
24 Jul 2022 18:17 #248185
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic high acceleration stepper motor selection?? (3D printer)
Is that a V2?
I have one of those, never had any issue with it. I did make it silent though to the point that i can sleep in the same room!
Low Inductance for high speed printing, probably high inductance for normal speeds, or best solution, something in the middle.
Not sure why you would change the original ones as they are quite good, i have one of those overdriven for nearly a year, it gets hot so much that when touching it it feels like burning the skin out of the fingers, never even bothered to check the temp.
If you really want to improve acceleration on CR-10S, get a nema 17 but longer, and you only need to change one, for the Y axis.
Did you test what it can do as is?
If not, give it a try, you will be surprised.
I have one of those, never had any issue with it. I did make it silent though to the point that i can sleep in the same room!
Low Inductance for high speed printing, probably high inductance for normal speeds, or best solution, something in the middle.
Not sure why you would change the original ones as they are quite good, i have one of those overdriven for nearly a year, it gets hot so much that when touching it it feels like burning the skin out of the fingers, never even bothered to check the temp.
If you really want to improve acceleration on CR-10S, get a nema 17 but longer, and you only need to change one, for the Y axis.
Did you test what it can do as is?
If not, give it a try, you will be surprised.
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24 Jul 2022 18:32 #248188
by spumco
Replied by spumco on topic high acceleration stepper motor selection?? (3D printer)
TLDR: tommy's right - get some longer 17's and bump the current if needed if it's losing steps. My Ender-5 has some Amazon Nema17's that are about double length of the OEM ones and the 2209's are fine and the motors aren't smoking.
Here's a link to LDO motors - based on internet jabber they're the new hotness.
ldomotors.com/products/show/42mm-hybrid-stepper-series
Higher inductance will require higher voltage to achieve the same RPM as a lower-inductance motor.
Assuming you're running a 24v system and the 2209's max out at 28V (according to the datasheet), so you've got no headroom without changing the drivers.
If you want to go down the rabbit-hole, TMC5160's can take 60v. All you need is a new power supply, high-voltage main board, and 5160's.
Here's a link to LDO motors - based on internet jabber they're the new hotness.
ldomotors.com/products/show/42mm-hybrid-stepper-series
Higher inductance will require higher voltage to achieve the same RPM as a lower-inductance motor.
Assuming you're running a 24v system and the 2209's max out at 28V (according to the datasheet), so you've got no headroom without changing the drivers.
If you want to go down the rabbit-hole, TMC5160's can take 60v. All you need is a new power supply, high-voltage main board, and 5160's.
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31 Jul 2022 11:38 #248721
by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic high acceleration stepper motor selection?? (3D printer)
The main thing with heat is that the temperature does not melt the insulation.
In this NEMA 17 example you willl note it is insulation Class B (130 deg C), Thats the absolute maximum allowable number..
www.moonsindustries.com/p/am-series-stan...n-000004611110011162
So Andy's 110 deg sounds a reasonable safety margin.
It is possible to calculate what the temperature rise over ambient is for a given stepper design.
Don't ask me how, I just use an engineer's spreadsheet I was given access to
However, what was apparent is that when the motor is carefully matched to the design, the temperature rise is quite low.
One of my designs has a rise of 39 deg C (over ambient) Allowing for an ambient of 35 deg here in .au, that becomes 74 deg C
This is where the Lam Drivers boost feature come in as the motor is only working hard and hot when accelerating and decellerating which is only a very small percentage of the work cycle. In that same design, the power requirements (in Watts) is only about 18.5% of total at constant velocity. So the Lam could happilly reduce the current (amps) to 25-30% without loss of steps when at constant velocity. This lets the motor cool which in turn allows the motor to be pushed harder without loss of steps! 5 m/s/s accelleration is quite feasible all day every day with this feature.
In this NEMA 17 example you willl note it is insulation Class B (130 deg C), Thats the absolute maximum allowable number..
www.moonsindustries.com/p/am-series-stan...n-000004611110011162
So Andy's 110 deg sounds a reasonable safety margin.
It is possible to calculate what the temperature rise over ambient is for a given stepper design.
Don't ask me how, I just use an engineer's spreadsheet I was given access to
However, what was apparent is that when the motor is carefully matched to the design, the temperature rise is quite low.
One of my designs has a rise of 39 deg C (over ambient) Allowing for an ambient of 35 deg here in .au, that becomes 74 deg C
This is where the Lam Drivers boost feature come in as the motor is only working hard and hot when accelerating and decellerating which is only a very small percentage of the work cycle. In that same design, the power requirements (in Watts) is only about 18.5% of total at constant velocity. So the Lam could happilly reduce the current (amps) to 25-30% without loss of steps when at constant velocity. This lets the motor cool which in turn allows the motor to be pushed harder without loss of steps! 5 m/s/s accelleration is quite feasible all day every day with this feature.
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