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Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
- D Jensen
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3 years 7 months ago #266888
by D Jensen
Replied by D Jensen on topic Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
For Glemigobles on p141:
It's better to work on the quill with the vertical head turned 90 degrees so the quill is horizontal. It's much more stable to work on than when the whole head assembly is on the bench. I've added comments on how to get the hand wheel off on my machine, in red on the drawing, which you need to do to disengage it from the quill rack. Although you see my hand wheel assembly disassembled in a previous photo, I only did that because I wanted to set less retraction force on the quill. The hand wheel assembly comes out in one piece if you are careful.
Then the whole quill assembly comes out as per the attached sequence, including all the tool clamping system. it's quick and easy. I've described in a previous post how to remove the clamp fingers which is also very easy if you first loosen that grub screw in it. It's easy to set to the correct depth after the whole system is refitted, then lock it fixed with the grub screw. It may be that the locking grub screw is a cap screw on some machines I've seen.
On mine, after I had cleaned the hydraulic system completely, and refilled it, I noticed that the pressure faded enough in a minute or so and the pump raised it again with a very short blip. i didn't see any leaks until I opened the pump door and saw a lot of oil in the drip tray on top of the pump. It turn out the bolts retaining the solenoid valves had loosened. I didn't touch them it might be the continual pressure pulsing works them loose over time.
If you have a rotary table, CNC or manual, it has hydraulic release and spring clamping just like the tool holders. So the hydraulic pump is necessary. With my CNC rotary table active the pump runs much longer on power up. Possibly some air in the rams. It's important that the rotary table remains unclamped during operation so I've fitted a pressure gauge on the table just to keep an eye on it. There is a pressure switch on those rams which I have currently wired to a warning lamp on the console. I'm thinking of wiring it into a circuit to inhibit the rotary table if the pressure goes low. It wouldn't be nice on the servo motor if it clamped unexpectedly.
So you have to set the pressure relief valve on the pump, then the pump pressure switch lower, then the pressure switch on the rotary table even lower so it doesn't switch when the pressure drops from tool holder changes, but still high enough for the rotary table rams to remain retracted. it's actually not as difficult as it sounds as long as you have a suitable pressure gauge. Some of the pressures are in the attached image.
Good Luck
David
It's better to work on the quill with the vertical head turned 90 degrees so the quill is horizontal. It's much more stable to work on than when the whole head assembly is on the bench. I've added comments on how to get the hand wheel off on my machine, in red on the drawing, which you need to do to disengage it from the quill rack. Although you see my hand wheel assembly disassembled in a previous photo, I only did that because I wanted to set less retraction force on the quill. The hand wheel assembly comes out in one piece if you are careful.
Then the whole quill assembly comes out as per the attached sequence, including all the tool clamping system. it's quick and easy. I've described in a previous post how to remove the clamp fingers which is also very easy if you first loosen that grub screw in it. It's easy to set to the correct depth after the whole system is refitted, then lock it fixed with the grub screw. It may be that the locking grub screw is a cap screw on some machines I've seen.
On mine, after I had cleaned the hydraulic system completely, and refilled it, I noticed that the pressure faded enough in a minute or so and the pump raised it again with a very short blip. i didn't see any leaks until I opened the pump door and saw a lot of oil in the drip tray on top of the pump. It turn out the bolts retaining the solenoid valves had loosened. I didn't touch them it might be the continual pressure pulsing works them loose over time.
If you have a rotary table, CNC or manual, it has hydraulic release and spring clamping just like the tool holders. So the hydraulic pump is necessary. With my CNC rotary table active the pump runs much longer on power up. Possibly some air in the rams. It's important that the rotary table remains unclamped during operation so I've fitted a pressure gauge on the table just to keep an eye on it. There is a pressure switch on those rams which I have currently wired to a warning lamp on the console. I'm thinking of wiring it into a circuit to inhibit the rotary table if the pressure goes low. It wouldn't be nice on the servo motor if it clamped unexpectedly.
So you have to set the pressure relief valve on the pump, then the pump pressure switch lower, then the pressure switch on the rotary table even lower so it doesn't switch when the pressure drops from tool holder changes, but still high enough for the rotary table rams to remain retracted. it's actually not as difficult as it sounds as long as you have a suitable pressure gauge. Some of the pressures are in the attached image.
Good Luck
David
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3 years 7 months ago #266890
by D Jensen
Replied by D Jensen on topic Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
Sorry, I accidentally erased an image.
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3 years 7 months ago #266898
by D Jensen
Replied by D Jensen on topic Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
For Mark:
I thought I had posted this on the hand wheel, but it looks like I haven't:
I like you effort on the hand wheel. On my MH-C 700 I have a Heidehhain HR 250 hand wheel. It only has the rotary dial, nothing else. I'm a bit envious.
It has two magnetic feet on it so it can be stuck onto the machine in various places, although none are really convenient and the feet scratch the paint of the machine. I might put something soft on them to stop that.
When I first got the machine I thought it was in a crinkle finish metal can. But it turns out it is a big lump of polyurethane foam. So you can bounce it off the concrete floor without damage. You guys might want to add foam like that to your designs. It is about the consistency of a modern car steering wheel and probably made the same way. You just make a mould and squirt foam in with an isocyanate foaming agent. As it expands it skins off on the the tool. They spray a parting agent on the tool first. Then spray polyurethane paint on it whatever colour you want.
Inside mine is a superb Heidehain chrome on glass encoder. Way overkill. It's happy to home down to 1 micron, depending on which gear ratio you program on the console. The encoder is in a metal can about 50mm diameter that is easy to open for inspection and service. The foam is about 150mm on each side. The hand wheel is made of the same foam with a brass boss inside for the encoder shaft mounting.
My Heidenhain console is on the old Philips mount arm so has the same ergonomic issues that had. Basically too far away.
A particular issue of interest elsewhere here, is holding the release button during tool change. On my machine someone has mounted a two position rotary switch on the Y slide hear the coolant tap. It stays close to tool holder, always, since it moves with the slide, and I can rotate it with may right hand while holding the tool holder with my left hand. Or just switch it and leave the tool unclamped. Seems a handy solution to me. It's wired in parallel with the no latching button on the console.
Sorry this post is out of sync with the photo of it.
David
I thought I had posted this on the hand wheel, but it looks like I haven't:
I like you effort on the hand wheel. On my MH-C 700 I have a Heidehhain HR 250 hand wheel. It only has the rotary dial, nothing else. I'm a bit envious.
It has two magnetic feet on it so it can be stuck onto the machine in various places, although none are really convenient and the feet scratch the paint of the machine. I might put something soft on them to stop that.
When I first got the machine I thought it was in a crinkle finish metal can. But it turns out it is a big lump of polyurethane foam. So you can bounce it off the concrete floor without damage. You guys might want to add foam like that to your designs. It is about the consistency of a modern car steering wheel and probably made the same way. You just make a mould and squirt foam in with an isocyanate foaming agent. As it expands it skins off on the the tool. They spray a parting agent on the tool first. Then spray polyurethane paint on it whatever colour you want.
Inside mine is a superb Heidehain chrome on glass encoder. Way overkill. It's happy to home down to 1 micron, depending on which gear ratio you program on the console. The encoder is in a metal can about 50mm diameter that is easy to open for inspection and service. The foam is about 150mm on each side. The hand wheel is made of the same foam with a brass boss inside for the encoder shaft mounting.
My Heidenhain console is on the old Philips mount arm so has the same ergonomic issues that had. Basically too far away.
A particular issue of interest elsewhere here, is holding the release button during tool change. On my machine someone has mounted a two position rotary switch on the Y slide hear the coolant tap. It stays close to tool holder, always, since it moves with the slide, and I can rotate it with may right hand while holding the tool holder with my left hand. Or just switch it and leave the tool unclamped. Seems a handy solution to me. It's wired in parallel with the no latching button on the console.
Sorry this post is out of sync with the photo of it.
David
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3 years 7 months ago #266953
by D Jensen
Replied by D Jensen on topic Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
This time a bit of indulgence:
I have some history of this machine.
It was quoted by Hahn & Kolb *Aust) PTY LTD in Melbourne Australia ex stock to Eric James Industries, Toolmakers, in Sydney, including tooling, training and delivery for $A80,000 net, in November 1982.
But it looks like it actually sold in July 83 for $A114,000 + 6% with the addition of the CNC rotary table and printer/reader. About 3.5 years salary for me as a Senior Engineer at that time.
In August 1987 it was upgraded to the Heidenhain TNC 155 by Electronic Services Company in Sydney for $19,260 +sales tax. That included 3 new Heidenhain linear encoders, replacing the original Philips ones.
After that it turns up in Ballerat, Victoria, where bought it on mid 2012, for $8k.
Since I was a cub engineer I've wanted a nice workshop with some nice machines. This is the icing on the cake. Ill do the rest with photos just to show how much I wanted it.
On the interstate transporter where I bought it from
Arrival at my place from the transporter depot in Sydney. Rainy day
Ready for lift from my garage at road level after 8 years in the garage. Restoring a Fiat Topolino got in the way.
More to come
David
I have some history of this machine.
It was quoted by Hahn & Kolb *Aust) PTY LTD in Melbourne Australia ex stock to Eric James Industries, Toolmakers, in Sydney, including tooling, training and delivery for $A80,000 net, in November 1982.
But it looks like it actually sold in July 83 for $A114,000 + 6% with the addition of the CNC rotary table and printer/reader. About 3.5 years salary for me as a Senior Engineer at that time.
In August 1987 it was upgraded to the Heidenhain TNC 155 by Electronic Services Company in Sydney for $19,260 +sales tax. That included 3 new Heidenhain linear encoders, replacing the original Philips ones.
After that it turns up in Ballerat, Victoria, where bought it on mid 2012, for $8k.
Since I was a cub engineer I've wanted a nice workshop with some nice machines. This is the icing on the cake. Ill do the rest with photos just to show how much I wanted it.
On the interstate transporter where I bought it from
Arrival at my place from the transporter depot in Sydney. Rainy day
Ready for lift from my garage at road level after 8 years in the garage. Restoring a Fiat Topolino got in the way.
More to come
David
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3 years 7 months ago #266954
by D Jensen
Replied by D Jensen on topic Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
First lift. "city crane". Really nice machine. Load cells on the legs so it knows if it will topple. Load cells on the lift, so he knows it's okay. Precision winch so it can inch at maybe 10mm/ s. Computer screen show lift versus boom length. WiFi safety helmets so I could communicate exactly what to do. We put each lift within 20mm of the spots I wanted. Fantastic. The lift height is a little daunting, but it allows the load to be gently pushed by hand to exactly the required spot while it maybe 50 mm off the ground. The house roof is solid Concrete but I think it wound punch through that if the slings broke.
Front lawn. Had to do the lift in two stages. Note the crane is now sitting on the neighbour's lawn. Good to have accommodating neighbours.
Above the house. About here I'm about s**ting myself. I did the slings. It was a really exciting fun day. That's my neighbours in the photos. Other neighbours passing by stopped to complain how ugly our lollypop ladies were. Usually they are good looking backpacker girls. it's a nice neighbourhood.
More to come
Front lawn. Had to do the lift in two stages. Note the crane is now sitting on the neighbour's lawn. Good to have accommodating neighbours.
Above the house. About here I'm about s**ting myself. I did the slings. It was a really exciting fun day. That's my neighbours in the photos. Other neighbours passing by stopped to complain how ugly our lollypop ladies were. Usually they are good looking backpacker girls. it's a nice neighbourhood.
More to come
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3 years 7 months ago #266955
by D Jensen
Replied by D Jensen on topic Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
Rear ramp. I built a Formply ramp along the back pathway with a slight slope towards the door. The crane was out of site from there so the WiFi helmet was absolutely needed to guide the drops onto the ramp. Only just enough length to fit all the assemblies. There it quite a lot the lift could tangle with and the breeze was coming up. Several stops during the drop to let it steady and stop spinning. It wasn't wise to pick a 35 degree C plus day to do it, but that's Sydney for you. In the middle of a Covid lock down you grab what you can.
Shed door. Note it just fits with 5mm to spare. even then it needed some rotation to get it through. I modeled it in Solid Works to be sure. But it still needed the door and it's jambs removed. A few days there just removing it and replacing it after. I was given a rather nice roller chain comealong that was handy to slide the loads. The assemblies are mounted on Formply also and with a bit of grease they slid okay Formply to Formply. I used the Formply after for the storage shelving in the shed.
And lastly:
Finished!!!! Two years later and a lot of work in between
Hope this inspires others. Break it down into manageable pieces at a time
David
Shed door. Note it just fits with 5mm to spare. even then it needed some rotation to get it through. I modeled it in Solid Works to be sure. But it still needed the door and it's jambs removed. A few days there just removing it and replacing it after. I was given a rather nice roller chain comealong that was handy to slide the loads. The assemblies are mounted on Formply also and with a bit of grease they slid okay Formply to Formply. I used the Formply after for the storage shelving in the shed.
And lastly:
Finished!!!! Two years later and a lot of work in between
Hope this inspires others. Break it down into manageable pieces at a time
David
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