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Deckel FP4 ATC Retrofit
3 years 2 months ago #278674
by Walkahz
Replied by Walkahz on topic Deckel FP4 ATC Retrofit
Been a while since my last post. I have gotten stuck in now the machine has been delivered and have been removing all the components that will be unused and tracing wiring so i can reverse engineer systems.
This project has gotten more complex due to my want to keep the machine to single phase only power which has meant removing most of the existing wiring and electronics that were mostly 3 phase. There were multiple transformers in the control box converting 380v 3ph to many different voltages both single and multi phase. These have all been removed.The 7 contactors that controlled the spindle motor have been removed and replaced by a VFD. This has been tested and functions well apart from letting the "smoke" out of a module that was wired into the motor... I believe a surge protector of some sort (E6 on the diagram). I removed these and tested motor again and it functions as it should.
I have purchased a PC and touch screen and am mounting them to the original control cabinet so i dont have to make anything from scratch.
I have ordered a Mesa 7I96S as my main control board with a 7i84D for additional I/O.
At this stage i am likely going to replace the servo motors with AC ones but am keeping my options open here.
Toolchanger will be removed as it is very slow and overly complex. for my initial needs manual tool change will be ok and i may eventually make a new Tool change if i see need.
This project has gotten more complex due to my want to keep the machine to single phase only power which has meant removing most of the existing wiring and electronics that were mostly 3 phase. There were multiple transformers in the control box converting 380v 3ph to many different voltages both single and multi phase. These have all been removed.The 7 contactors that controlled the spindle motor have been removed and replaced by a VFD. This has been tested and functions well apart from letting the "smoke" out of a module that was wired into the motor... I believe a surge protector of some sort (E6 on the diagram). I removed these and tested motor again and it functions as it should.
I have purchased a PC and touch screen and am mounting them to the original control cabinet so i dont have to make anything from scratch.
I have ordered a Mesa 7I96S as my main control board with a 7i84D for additional I/O.
At this stage i am likely going to replace the servo motors with AC ones but am keeping my options open here.
Toolchanger will be removed as it is very slow and overly complex. for my initial needs manual tool change will be ok and i may eventually make a new Tool change if i see need.
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3 years 2 months ago - 3 years 2 months ago #278676
by pawel77
Replied by pawel77 on topic Deckel FP4 ATC Retrofit
these are nice DC servos.
if they have tacho feedback buy a simple DC drive like this www.semis-bg.eu/servoe_d.html (I have tested it onParker Peerless DC motor and it works well) and try to move them, but before uncouple the motor from the machine.
cheers
if they have tacho feedback buy a simple DC drive like this www.semis-bg.eu/servoe_d.html (I have tested it on
cheers
Last edit: 3 years 2 months ago by pawel77.
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3 years 2 months ago #278685
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Deckel FP4 ATC Retrofit
@Walkahz
Nice smoke effects !
It looks like a high frequency protection, would be nice to replace that as it helps suppressing interference's.
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@Pawel77
Those are DC for brushed motors, the OP has a 3 phase one, and they are for maximum of 135V while the OP has probably 200V stuff.
Nice smoke effects !
It looks like a high frequency protection, would be nice to replace that as it helps suppressing interference's.
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@Pawel77
Those are DC for brushed motors, the OP has a 3 phase one, and they are for maximum of 135V while the OP has probably 200V stuff.
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3 years 2 months ago #278694
by pawel77
Replied by pawel77 on topic Deckel FP4 ATC Retrofit
@Tommy
maybe I am wrong but in my understanding these are DC brushed servo motor and drives ar DC too.
regarding maximum voltage you can ask at SEMIS if they can adopt the power supply side and maximum output voltage. I remember they wanted adopt for me something.
maybe I am wrong but in my understanding these are DC brushed servo motor and drives ar DC too.
regarding maximum voltage you can ask at SEMIS if they can adopt the power supply side and maximum output voltage. I remember they wanted adopt for me something.
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3 years 2 months ago - 3 years 2 months ago #278698
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Deckel FP4 ATC Retrofit
Brushed DC motors are motors with brushes with simple + and - to drive them, you connect any DC voltage at them and they spin with no electronics.
3 phase brushless require electronics or 3 phase power source, if you connect any DC voltage to them they do not spin, they just burn slowly or quickly, depending on the voltage/current applied.
They are not interchangeable, a drive for brushed does not work for brushless motor, and vice versa.
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I do understand the confusion, the 3 phase brushless motors or synchronous are very often named as "brushless DC" and that is wrong, but it is to differentiate from 3 phase induction/asynchronous motors.
Again, not the same thing as that makes 3 types in general use, brushed, brushless synchronous and brushes asynchronous. The last one is the original Tesla motor, and not the Elon Musk one, Elon did not invent anything.
3 phase brushless require electronics or 3 phase power source, if you connect any DC voltage to them they do not spin, they just burn slowly or quickly, depending on the voltage/current applied.
They are not interchangeable, a drive for brushed does not work for brushless motor, and vice versa.
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I do understand the confusion, the 3 phase brushless motors or synchronous are very often named as "brushless DC" and that is wrong, but it is to differentiate from 3 phase induction/asynchronous motors.
Again, not the same thing as that makes 3 types in general use, brushed, brushless synchronous and brushes asynchronous. The last one is the original Tesla motor, and not the Elon Musk one, Elon did not invent anything.
Last edit: 3 years 2 months ago by tommylight. Reason: typo
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3 years 2 months ago #278744
by Walkahz
Replied by Walkahz on topic Deckel FP4 ATC Retrofit
Thanks for the link Pawel
These could work nicely for my Servo motors as they are brushed DC.
Just looking at the spec sheet do I read correctly that you feed them 110v AC and they send out as DC for the motors?
Do you know how much they cost?
These could work nicely for my Servo motors as they are brushed DC.
Just looking at the spec sheet do I read correctly that you feed them 110v AC and they send out as DC for the motors?
Do you know how much they cost?
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