A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
- InMyDarkestHour
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05 Jul 2018 11:27 #113469
by InMyDarkestHour
Replied by InMyDarkestHour on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
I agree with you rodw.
I think earlier on I mentioned what I deleted.
Playing around with another iso
As per tommy:
Just to head it off, Linux mint 64 bit with Mate, preempt rt, linuxcnc, librecad,blenderCam, inkscape, geany, nativecam, dxf2gcode, dmap2gcode
Nativecam & Blendercam I put in the "too hard basket" for now.
Hmmmm no response from Her Majesty yet...interesting
I think earlier on I mentioned what I deleted.
Playing around with another iso
As per tommy:
Just to head it off, Linux mint 64 bit with Mate, preempt rt, linuxcnc, librecad,
Nativecam & Blendercam I put in the "too hard basket" for now.
Hmmmm no response from Her Majesty yet...interesting
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- tommylight
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05 Jul 2018 12:46 #113470
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
After a bit of thinking ( and reading the posts above ), i have to agree with the idea of not having anything except Linuxcnc to avoid further complications.
As a side note regarding BlenderCAM, if you follow the official instructions it is hard, but if you know where to look for it you can find a version that works always and does not even have to be installed at all, in some cases it requires installation of 2 other packages that are in the usual repos, so nothing more that a single line of apt. It can also be copied from computer to computer and it will work.
blendercam.blogspot.com/p/download-and-installation.html
Just click on the google drive link and choose the flavour, unzip and off you go.
If when you open it first you do not get the "blenderCAM" menu in the upper middle, read that thread as there are those 2 packages missing.
This is just in case someone needs it.
Still vote to have nothing but Linuxcnc.
As a side note regarding BlenderCAM, if you follow the official instructions it is hard, but if you know where to look for it you can find a version that works always and does not even have to be installed at all, in some cases it requires installation of 2 other packages that are in the usual repos, so nothing more that a single line of apt. It can also be copied from computer to computer and it will work.
blendercam.blogspot.com/p/download-and-installation.html
Just click on the google drive link and choose the flavour, unzip and off you go.
If when you open it first you do not get the "blenderCAM" menu in the upper middle, read that thread as there are those 2 packages missing.
This is just in case someone needs it.
Still vote to have nothing but Linuxcnc.
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05 Jul 2018 12:57 #113472
by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
I'd also cull LibreCad as its only going to appeal to a limited subset of users (I'm not one of them). Onshape is cloud based, full parametric 3D, runs on any platform in your browser and your phone and is free if your project is kept as open source (Isn't what this is all about?), so why would you bother with 2D tools? We are way past that point today. This is CNC so leave CAD out of it.
Same for Inkscape. This is CNC, not graphic design.
Whilst I love Geany, if Gedit is native to Mint, then stick to it as it does the job.
So that leaves your gcode tools. Part of me says to ditch them too. I've never used them and am not likely to either.
The purer the ISO is, the more chance it has of being adopted by the dev team and that is the direction we should take.
Same for Inkscape. This is CNC, not graphic design.
Whilst I love Geany, if Gedit is native to Mint, then stick to it as it does the job.
So that leaves your gcode tools. Part of me says to ditch them too. I've never used them and am not likely to either.
The purer the ISO is, the more chance it has of being adopted by the dev team and that is the direction we should take.
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05 Jul 2018 13:26 #113474
by InMyDarkestHour
I agree with what you've said.
To cut down on size I've taken out:
Gimp, Simple-scan, Pix
Hex-chat, Pidgin, Thunderbird, Transmission
Libreoffice
xplayer (Media Player), Rhythm-box, Brasero
Maybe a few others such as CUPS. I've actually toyed with idea of not compiling the kernel with sound support.
So far all I've added is midnight commander (on the rare occassions the GUI doesn't come up it's a great tool for file management and the editor is quite good as well), would ssh be a worthwhile addition ?
I also find gftp great for transferring files via ssh. Any comments on that ?
Geany is in the repos so that's not an issue. Actually I like to work on some syntax hight lighting for LCNC ini & hal files for geany.
It could also be setup for compiling custom hal components for those that have a bent that way.
The way the iso is respun, JLiveCD extracts the files from your base iso, unpacks the squashfs file, drops you into a chrooted environment where you can add & delete packages as you see fit, setup the way you want the desktop. You can run GUI apps that are installed in the chroot, the only thing that I haven't tried, and this maybe a bit sketchy, is to run a whole desktop.
After that is done, it does it's housekeeping, asks if you want a new initramfs (if you have installed a new kernel), repacks the squashfs file and rebuilds a iso.
Any new packages that are downloaded are saved via JLiveCD into a holding directory and during the setup of the chroot environment the are copied to the cache. So if you remove a package, make your iso and want it back you don't have to download the package again.
Replied by InMyDarkestHour on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
I'd also cull LibreCad as its only going to appeal to a limited subset of users (I'm not one of them). Onshape is cloud based, full parametric 3D, runs on any platform in your browser and your phone and is free if your project is kept as open source (Isn't what this is all about?), so why would you bother with 2D tools? We are way past that point today. This is CNC so leave CAD out of it.
Same for Inkscape. This is CNC, not graphic design.
Whilst I love Geany, if Gedit is native to Mint, then stick to it as it does the job.
So that leaves your gcode tools. Part of me says to ditch them too. I've never used them and am not likely to either.
The purer the ISO is, the more chance it has of being adopted by the dev team and that is the direction we should take.
I agree with what you've said.
To cut down on size I've taken out:
Gimp, Simple-scan, Pix
Hex-chat, Pidgin, Thunderbird, Transmission
Libreoffice
xplayer (Media Player), Rhythm-box, Brasero
Maybe a few others such as CUPS. I've actually toyed with idea of not compiling the kernel with sound support.
So far all I've added is midnight commander (on the rare occassions the GUI doesn't come up it's a great tool for file management and the editor is quite good as well), would ssh be a worthwhile addition ?
I also find gftp great for transferring files via ssh. Any comments on that ?
Geany is in the repos so that's not an issue. Actually I like to work on some syntax hight lighting for LCNC ini & hal files for geany.
It could also be setup for compiling custom hal components for those that have a bent that way.
The way the iso is respun, JLiveCD extracts the files from your base iso, unpacks the squashfs file, drops you into a chrooted environment where you can add & delete packages as you see fit, setup the way you want the desktop. You can run GUI apps that are installed in the chroot, the only thing that I haven't tried, and this maybe a bit sketchy, is to run a whole desktop.
After that is done, it does it's housekeeping, asks if you want a new initramfs (if you have installed a new kernel), repacks the squashfs file and rebuilds a iso.
Any new packages that are downloaded are saved via JLiveCD into a holding directory and during the setup of the chroot environment the are copied to the cache. So if you remove a package, make your iso and want it back you don't have to download the package again.
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05 Jul 2018 18:56 #113495
by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
Gimp should stay as we've used it to annotate screendumps from halscope.
hexchat is used to talk on the Linuxcnc IRC channel.
I have used LibreOffice to manipulate CSV files.
I think I've downloaded Word files and had to read them.
I thought some LinuxCNC GUI's use sound
CUPS should stay. My network printers are installed on my LinuxCNC device
Wouldn't some people need Brasero if they wanted to create an ISO backup? I think its also part of the desktop environment.
I'm just one user so I'm sure others would uses some other features.
There could be an argument to leave stuff out if we had to get down to a specific size for CD or DVD .iso burning but all my installs have been from a thumb drive.
I think I saw the other day the new version of Mint requires 16gb of storage so the days of putting it on an 8 gb SSD module might be over.
hexchat is used to talk on the Linuxcnc IRC channel.
I have used LibreOffice to manipulate CSV files.
I think I've downloaded Word files and had to read them.
I thought some LinuxCNC GUI's use sound
CUPS should stay. My network printers are installed on my LinuxCNC device
Wouldn't some people need Brasero if they wanted to create an ISO backup? I think its also part of the desktop environment.
I'm just one user so I'm sure others would uses some other features.
There could be an argument to leave stuff out if we had to get down to a specific size for CD or DVD .iso burning but all my installs have been from a thumb drive.
I think I saw the other day the new version of Mint requires 16gb of storage so the days of putting it on an 8 gb SSD module might be over.
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05 Jul 2018 20:02 #113505
by InMyDarkestHour
Replied by InMyDarkestHour on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
Hmmmm so what you really want, despite previous comments, would be a standard Mint desktop install with LCNC and a RT kernel replacing the standard one.
Where I was thinking of a more "mean & lean" install.
If that's the case just a repo with Mint specific packages sounds like an easier option. And forget remastering Mint all together.
Where I was thinking of a more "mean & lean" install.
If that's the case just a repo with Mint specific packages sounds like an easier option. And forget remastering Mint all together.
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06 Jul 2018 07:09 #113536
by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
I think we still need the ISO. How else are we going to get PREEMPT_RT or perhaps RTAI? It seems like PREEMPT_RT is winning that argument today. The requirement for a Real Time environment is what drove LinuxCNC to distribute via an ISO in the first place.
Its good to have the discussion but what I think its shown that different people want different bits of the standard deployment so leaving stuff out is probably going to inconvenience some when we want to make it as seamless as possible to adopt LinuxCNC (and as a secondary goal, let them sample Linux as Mint does it). We don't really want to deviate from that.
In this day and age SSD storage is cheap and having these extra apps deployed is not going to impact on latency so why worry too much about that?
I've got a PC here I can wipe to test the PREEMPT_RT ISO.... Its a Gigabyte Brix USFF so it has all sorts of modern hardware unsupported on Wheezy or Stretch.
Its good to have the discussion but what I think its shown that different people want different bits of the standard deployment so leaving stuff out is probably going to inconvenience some when we want to make it as seamless as possible to adopt LinuxCNC (and as a secondary goal, let them sample Linux as Mint does it). We don't really want to deviate from that.
In this day and age SSD storage is cheap and having these extra apps deployed is not going to impact on latency so why worry too much about that?
I've got a PC here I can wipe to test the PREEMPT_RT ISO.... Its a Gigabyte Brix USFF so it has all sorts of modern hardware unsupported on Wheezy or Stretch.
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06 Jul 2018 07:31 #113540
by InMyDarkestHour
Replied by InMyDarkestHour on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
It may even be easier for a meta package.
1. User adds the repo (many packages have ppa's to delivery software Kicad is an example)
2. User does an apt-get update
3. User does an apt-get install name-of-meta-package
4. Everything needed is installed and the user reboots into his brand new shiney LCNC RT system.
The only drawback is not being able to test with a live cd. But on the other hand if the user has a existing Mint system installed it's easy enough to do.
I could throw an ISO together for you to test, but I'd have to post it on physical media as I can only get 1.5Mb/s (yes bits per second download, and my connection is a bit flakey this week). No I'm not in rural NSW, just a part of Sydney where the NBN is running at 12 months, best estimate, behind schedule.
1. User adds the repo (many packages have ppa's to delivery software Kicad is an example)
2. User does an apt-get update
3. User does an apt-get install name-of-meta-package
4. Everything needed is installed and the user reboots into his brand new shiney LCNC RT system.
The only drawback is not being able to test with a live cd. But on the other hand if the user has a existing Mint system installed it's easy enough to do.
I could throw an ISO together for you to test, but I'd have to post it on physical media as I can only get 1.5Mb/s (yes bits per second download, and my connection is a bit flakey this week). No I'm not in rural NSW, just a part of Sydney where the NBN is running at 12 months, best estimate, behind schedule.
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06 Jul 2018 07:41 #113541
by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
Hmm, Sounds like you won't want to know that I am on the NBN with fibre to the house and a 100/40 Mb link....
I don't understand meta packages.
Happy to receive snail mail contributions. Give me a couple of weeks as I have revised my freight arrangements today so when that goes live, I'll have overnight rates Australia wide but I'm not sure if that will apply to incoming freight or just outgoing.
I don't understand meta packages.
Happy to receive snail mail contributions. Give me a couple of weeks as I have revised my freight arrangements today so when that goes live, I'll have overnight rates Australia wide but I'm not sure if that will apply to incoming freight or just outgoing.
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06 Jul 2018 08:09 #113542
by tommylight
That would be nice and easy to do for most users.
I personally have a strange case of the "gremlins inside the computer" as in:
Using the well known and concise tutorial on this forum regarding installing Linuxcnc on Linux Mint 18.1 works always without any issue except when i try to install the same thing on a Dell E6510 laptop. It will complain about something like libprintwhatever and fail to install, if i install that manually all kinds of weird things happen like loosing the desktop menu and complaints about not finding something or another.
But if i install on a different computer and use that SSD on the laptop it works flawlessly .
This is an isolated issue as i have not encountered it on any other hardware ( i have plenty of computers and laptops ) so not even worth the time to check what is going on. In the mean time i can borrow the same laptop from my brother and test it as he has another E6510.
Replied by tommylight on topic A few ideas ( I can't sleep and few ideas popped up)
It may even be easier for a meta package.
1. User adds the repo (many packages have ppa's to delivery software Kicad is an example)
2. User does an apt-get update
3. User does an apt-get install name-of-meta-package
4. Everything needed is installed and the user reboots into his brand new shiney LCNC RT system.
That would be nice and easy to do for most users.
I personally have a strange case of the "gremlins inside the computer" as in:
Using the well known and concise tutorial on this forum regarding installing Linuxcnc on Linux Mint 18.1 works always without any issue except when i try to install the same thing on a Dell E6510 laptop. It will complain about something like libprintwhatever and fail to install, if i install that manually all kinds of weird things happen like loosing the desktop menu and complaints about not finding something or another.
But if i install on a different computer and use that SSD on the laptop it works flawlessly .
This is an isolated issue as i have not encountered it on any other hardware ( i have plenty of computers and laptops ) so not even worth the time to check what is going on. In the mean time i can borrow the same laptop from my brother and test it as he has another E6510.
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