How do I do a manual tool change?

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13 Nov 2021 23:50 #226392 by cakeslob
If you are using your isolated vise as an automatic tool touchoff try using the sample config i mentioned and work from there.

I dont know what led you to the conclusion thats its just 2 lines to change, but im sure if it was that simple one of the many other users trying to do this would have changed it by now. If you do know which 2 lines need changing, please post them , and then this issue can be fixed.

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14 Nov 2021 00:25 - 14 Nov 2021 00:29 #226396 by d2inventory

"I have no idea why it was again rewritten somehow, despite that I have not touched any auto configurators like pncconf. You really think I am so dumb to just skip one step in documentation, and do that 3 times in a row?"


Yes indeed, I think this is how dumb you are. This fits exactly what I've seen from you so far. You call simple configuration "hardcore programming". You completely misevaluate the pricing of hardware. You have no idea what use cases were considered when writing the software yet talk like you're an expert. Again, the pattern is clear, you talk a whole lot of shit about stuff you have no idea about.

So this is how it most likely went down:
You fiddled with the stuff and you over wrote and then you most likely blamed someone for that (definitely not yourself). Then you went to the docu and you filled out the [RS274NGC] section again but you didn't click on the link like the first time and you didn't add the SUBROUTINE_PATH again because you already consider yourself a master of that section of the documentation so you went through it carelessly and indeed didn't do this extra step.
But again as you can't be blamed for anything "something else must have overwritten it". Nope, shit doesn't magically disappear buddy, take some fucking responsibility for once.

Nope, it is possibly less than two lines, all you need to do is stop disabling joging controls and let user overwrite Z0, that's how it is done in mach3/4 for decades, works easy and simple.


You know how I draw the Mona Lisa? I take a brush and a canvas and then I just draw the thing. It's literally so easy you should try it once.
Oh wait, there goes a whole lot more on there. You clearly have no clue at all what you're talking about. I mean you struggle with very simple configuration task why would you ever tell others how easy it is to implement something?
I mean you don't even understand that none of the code you would have to touch for that is linux specific, this is just another cheap arse excuse of yours to delfect responsibility. I have fiddled with the code and I know for a fact it's not just "hurr durr just add 2 lines of code". This stuff is a lot more complex than that. You think this is just a matter of a fucking button being enabled or not? Seriously mate ....

Not even gonna mention that gmoccapy GUI doesn't even let me monitor which code line is actually running at given moment


See, another example of you talking straight up bullshit. Here a quite recent video of gmoccapy in action where you clearly can see that the currently active line of code is highlighted.

the relevant portion of the video is @ 9 minutes 50 seconds



"Cant imagine how I would touch off the bottom of the stock later then"


You don't? You set your bed as 0 and that's it. This is exactly how I'm doing it. I planed my bed and set that as my 0. Now my machine always knows the bottom of the part and every tool is automatically measured after I manually changed it and uses the very same 0 point.
How can this very simple concept be so hard for you to understand?

So I know a thing and have a good understanding how good or bad open source software can be.


See, this is the main problem here. You have a giant ego and you can't handle that you've been shown that you're not quite as smart as you thought you are. You think you know shit, but in reality you have no fucking idea.
You do not get that this is not a question of enabling a user control and setting a variable. You do understand so little about it that you don't even know that the button you see and the machine control run in 2 entirely different processes. See buddy this software is a little more complex than "just set a variable to 0". Yes for your very simple workflow this might be the gold standard but guess what not everyone using this software wants to run a shitty workflow just because you can't handle a more complex and way more efficient one.
Jogging after your tool change to set a new 0 point is a crutch you got used to from an inferior software. It's not because it's the superior work flow but it's just the crippled hack you got used to and now you're throwing a tamper tantrum because you can't have your shitty hack back.
Tool touch off is incredibly easy to set up, it took me less than an hour when I first did it following the video you got linked and it's infinitely much easier. I too wanted to do it like you at first until I learned that this is a shitty way of doing things. Just like I wanted to rehome everytime I started a new program because I didn't understand work offsets. But unlike you I didn't blame everyone else, I realised that I still have to learn a lot about CNC in general and LinuxCNC in particular.

Just think about it, despite you being an arsehole to the docu writer the software dev the hardware dev you still get so much help. So have some self reflection and start acceptiong that YOU are the problem and not everyone and everything else. You are failing not the software not the docu not the hardware.
Last edit: 14 Nov 2021 00:29 by d2inventory.

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14 Nov 2021 00:26 - 14 Nov 2021 00:26 #226397 by d2inventory
Last edit: 14 Nov 2021 00:26 by d2inventory.

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14 Nov 2021 01:06 #226400 by cakeslob
Ah thats good, because I dont know whats going on as I have zero years experience programming as I am a tool and die maker.I also like making 3d printers, I got my first one at the world makerfair 2012 in newyork. But dont worry, a lot of linuxcnc is programed in c and python, so a windows background shouldnt matter. Its really more about why those 2 dead simple things are disabled. Check out some of stuff here linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/code/code-notes.html and here github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/master/src/emc . But say you do change those 2 lines to make it joggable and and set a tool variable, what happens after that? Im just a simple toolmaker, but from what I understand, even if you could jog and set a tool variable, the gcode will not simply catch up to the variable at any given time once in automatic mode. I do not think you can pass variables after you have hit the auto button, and still have them take effect. Once the program is started, all those variables are calculated before hand using the tooltable/params and the programs fate is sealed until the machine comes out of auto and the program is re-interpreted with the new variables. So to pass any variables mid program, you will need to do things my feeble toolmakers brain cannot comprehend like coming out of auto or queue buster or maybe something to do with task.
There are many users using linuxcnc, and im sure your issue is not unique, so please exercise patience, read some of the many examples from other users online using google and in the documents/github , and understand that linuxcnc is not as much lowering standards as it is lowering expectations of everything being as simple as the less capable controller software. Other things are more like "paint by numbers" and linuxcnc is just a blank sketchbook.

About your vise and spoil board, that is good info to know, since these heights are not static. It is important to include all relevant information when asking for help because understanding the problem from your point of view is important to finding a solution. Considering setting up a static location for a toolsetting position that does not change from setup to setup. Im still rather unclear as to how you are trying to do this, but are you trying to change the g54 z offset or are you changing the tool height offset? Please be very clear on what exactly you are trying to accomplish in detail. Over generalized statements and opinions are unhelpful in the troubleshooting process and it is important to keep your topic specific to the issue you are trying to solve. Good luck with your project, my cnc is about to enter into the same phase with automatic manual toolchange offset.

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14 Nov 2021 01:11 #226401 by d2inventory
Quite amusing to see your double standards. When I hold a mirror in front of you and be the very same arsehole you are to the software dev the docu writer and the hardware dev suddenly you don't like it and you call it toxic. But when you do it? Then obviously it's all cool, right?

I mean if you have a different reference plane you have to touch of the intial tool every time anyway there is literally no way around that. Seriously you are just completely out of your league here...

You misunderstand the word "smart" apparently, as you think "smart" means that the person knows everything in the world.


And again you failed. Smart is recognizing patterns and clearly you fail hard in recognizing the very obvious pattern that you talk like an expert on a subject you haven't even gotten past the introduction course.

Every time I launched a config I obviously double checked that code wasnt overwritten


And because you're infallible it musta been some evil software that magically deleted that stuff and totally not your fault. Again, I gave you a very plausible sequence of events that produce the very output I saw in your configs, but ofc that couldn't have been the case because that would mean you fucked something up and as we all know you're infallible so that's definitely not what happened. Musta been the evil linux goblins that magically changed your config...

Sometimes is better to not jump in to not look like that annoying kid at school.


Self reflection buddy, you really need it. If you can identify me as "that annoying kid" rest assured that I am merely reflecting your own behaviour. Why do you think tommy linked to your previous arsehole behaviour?

you are one of those whose time costs nothing very obviously


Nope, I just don't take several days to set up something that only takes like 1 hour. So if you take the difference between those 2 you can see how I can have a lot of time to point out how it's you being the failure instead of all the other things you blame while at the same time holding a mirror in front of you in terms of "etiquette".

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14 Nov 2021 02:26 #226403 by MaHa
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14 Nov 2021 04:02 #226415 by Vladcronos

the gcode will not simply catch up to the variable at any given time once in automatic mode

it absolutely will, as it doesnt care about that. This is exactly how it works on MACH3/4 for decades software on windows. So that alone is a simple proof. I write gcode all the time, it doesnt care about that. relative or absolute also doesnt matter as you override whichever one is in use and during a tool change pause. I did tool changers on reprap firmware and in klipper for example, super basic and simple to do, thats how I know. Gcode is also no different here.

Imagine it this way, lets just take Z here, as we are not changing the XY. Your tool is currently at 20.00 position and the next step supposed to send it to 10.mm. But now your new tool is 5mm shorter, so you move a new tool to zero, which means a -5.00 in old coordinate, and you zero it out over there. now you have an accurate new zero. then you jog it up into safe area again, as normal. new coordinate is now effective and the gcode still wants to sent it to same old 10.00 position, and it will and everything is fine, because you reset your z coordinate and now it is effectively 5mm lower. That's really basic, which is why I got so frustrated that such basic stuff isn't done in over 10 years. So at this point 10000 people spending 100000 man hours to tune it individually for each of them, instead of efficiently doing this once on github and relief the crowd from that suffer.

so please exercise patience, read some of the many examples from other users online using google and in the documents/github

forums are usually my last destination, I have already spent 2 days on google and youtube actually, as that would be great if anyone has made a single sample setup there. would be much more efficient, but sadly I wasn't able to find anything I could use on the web. Turns out this software isnt actually as popular as I thought, and there are not too many DIY setups in the wild to generate that tutorial base.

as the less capable controller software

I disagree here again, and I am struggling here with a very basic feature that took me around 30 minutes to setup on mach4 for example, here I am struggling for 2 days. How is this more advanced in any way? I can not talk about 5 axis fucntions etc, maybe it is more advanced in that area. But so far for my basic 3-4 axis use the initial setup has been a disaster, thats all I know. And that is exactly due to a lack of BASIC features, how much lower an expectation can be than to have a simple probing preset, i dunno.

but are you trying to change the g54 z offset or are you changing the tool height offset?

Thats exactly the problem, as I have no effing idea myself, 95% of my robotic experience is in 3D printers, where this basic stuff is super easy to jsut write in gcode and hit go. I expected this have been already implemented in the software so I dont have to think about "how do I probe" or "how to code this and that to probe". This is again where the frustration comes from, as it feels centuries behind even mach4, which I bought and its also far from perfect. But over there my biggest problem was bugs and non-realtime USB based control. Now I appreciate much more what mach4 actually offered as a complete package actually lol. How I see a proper software: it asks you for your probe data, position, height etc. Then you insert each tool and it measures it, after you press the button to runt he macro. If software doesnt even do that by itself, thats not a software, thats a half-assed unfinished code to my eyes. Again nothing personal and dont mean to offense anyone, treat it as my personal opinion only.

What I am trying to accomplish is simple, change a tool and be able to continue the program, I am a simple man!

I just finished my day long fighting with wifi conflict with mesa, and it turned out (again) that the guide that I used gave me incorrect settings, and the majority of my troubleshooting was focused in a wrong place, since I trusted and did not doubt that guide settings. Again turned out that I spend time online asking and searching for examples and end up just learning stuff on the way and writing it all myself from the scratch in the end, minus wasted time on the web lol. Gotta go back into linuxCNC docs now, as I admit they are very overwhelming to read, and I did skip most of that. Patience isnt my top skill haha. Imagine machine was already making chips and then I wired the simple probe which put the machine down for 3 days and counting and turned all the setting into a bloody mess. Anyways, I am on AXIS interface now, it is not as "pretty" on touch screen, but as long as it fucntions well, I will be happy. Started a new setup now from the scratch and going to use that macro from above and see what it does. Thank you again for all the time you spent here with me and links! 

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14 Nov 2021 04:09 - 14 Nov 2021 04:13 #226416 by Vladcronos
isn't their eyes/pupils remarkable? it always amazed me.

As a side note, I have just opened AXIS GUI... omg, it is so much simpler, cleaner and better! At least to a person new to linuxCNC. With gmoccapy I struggled to even find a simple hal monitor to check signals, in AXIS found it in 4 seconds! I have a good feeling about this GUI! I may return to gmoccapy, but later when I am already very familiar with the software.
Last edit: 14 Nov 2021 04:13 by Vladcronos.

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14 Nov 2021 05:08 - 14 Nov 2021 05:15 #226429 by Vladcronos

 in your macro folder

Jan, what would be the default full path to that folder? I am again having silly issues here, where it now crashes not being able to locate this file. I already tried to put it all over config folder, set different paths too, also went into dev folder, found a macro folder there, put it there too, still not able to find a file... And of course debugging isn't showing a full path, because who needs that right lol

NVM, "subroutines" line was missing in your code, I figured it out already haha. Time to test!
Last edit: 14 Nov 2021 05:15 by Vladcronos.

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14 Nov 2021 07:18 #226440 by Vladcronos
A sudden leap forward haha, thanks again guys! Bed time, will refine the gcode tomorrow. Still a draft. :)

And that's how I wanted it to be done, right on the stock for a true zero.

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