Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
14 Jan 2017 06:21 #85726
by Nitram
Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle was created by Nitram
Hello all!
Have conducted a specific searched regarding the question below, but no luck...
Looking into a retrofit of a FADAL 3016 (1996 year, DC servos/resolvers) to LinuxCNC given the ever increasing reliance and cost of outdated proprietary hardware. Another way of saying: "future-proofing" with an adaptable, flexible and contemporary system.
The prime challenge seems to be the ATC cycle. Obviously there are quite a number of Fadal's out there, so just wondering whether anyone has retrofitted one with LinuxCNC and therefore whether there are any ladders or hal code already in existence specifically regarding the Fadal ATC cycle.
Hoping to get some previous Fadal retrofit expertise onto the forum regarding the ATC. Obviously information for this build, but also once this info is up it will serve as a searchable record for those who will also undoubtedly want to retrofit a Fadal in the future.
Would be greatly interested in your experience if you've been on this journey before me.
Thanks and best regards,
Marty.
Have conducted a specific searched regarding the question below, but no luck...
Looking into a retrofit of a FADAL 3016 (1996 year, DC servos/resolvers) to LinuxCNC given the ever increasing reliance and cost of outdated proprietary hardware. Another way of saying: "future-proofing" with an adaptable, flexible and contemporary system.
The prime challenge seems to be the ATC cycle. Obviously there are quite a number of Fadal's out there, so just wondering whether anyone has retrofitted one with LinuxCNC and therefore whether there are any ladders or hal code already in existence specifically regarding the Fadal ATC cycle.
Hoping to get some previous Fadal retrofit expertise onto the forum regarding the ATC. Obviously information for this build, but also once this info is up it will serve as a searchable record for those who will also undoubtedly want to retrofit a Fadal in the future.
Would be greatly interested in your experience if you've been on this journey before me.
Thanks and best regards,
Marty.
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14 Jan 2017 23:55 #85793
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
I am sure that we can help you through this. It really comes down to if you prefer to control the cycle from G-code or Classic Ladder.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nitram
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08 Sep 2017 09:54 #98658
by Nitram
Replied by Nitram on topic Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
Hello again all! 
Now at the stage of buying cards for the Linux CNC retrofit of this FADAL. Was a DC servo motor machine with resolvers.
Keeping the DC axis motors, but going to use incremental encoders (no more resolvers) for positioning.
Currently a 4 axis machine, and currently also has an encoder on the spindle for rigid tap.
The parts I “think” I need are the following, can you please confirm that these parts will work together, or if you recommend a better solution.
2x 7i29 2 axis servo drives giving me 4 axis total
1x 5i22-1 Motion card
2x 7i37 for isolated machine side i/o
1x 7184 for pendant side i/o including MPG connection
If I am correct these cards will take up 3 of the 50way connectors on the 5i22, leaving me another slot spare for future expansion if needed.
Thanks for everyone's insight!
Kind regards,
Marty.
Now at the stage of buying cards for the Linux CNC retrofit of this FADAL. Was a DC servo motor machine with resolvers.
Keeping the DC axis motors, but going to use incremental encoders (no more resolvers) for positioning.
Currently a 4 axis machine, and currently also has an encoder on the spindle for rigid tap.
The parts I “think” I need are the following, can you please confirm that these parts will work together, or if you recommend a better solution.
2x 7i29 2 axis servo drives giving me 4 axis total
1x 5i22-1 Motion card
2x 7i37 for isolated machine side i/o
1x 7184 for pendant side i/o including MPG connection
If I am correct these cards will take up 3 of the 50way connectors on the 5i22, leaving me another slot spare for future expansion if needed.
Thanks for everyone's insight!
Kind regards,
Marty.
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08 Sep 2017 12:27 #98675
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
Have you considered keeping the resolvers? They are easy to use with LinuxCNC and the Mesa 7i49 card, and are actually superior to encoders in most respects except cost (they are enormously expensive to buy, but you already have them).
Both my lathe and mill use resolvers. I even took a encoder off of one the lathe servos to fit a resolver.
Both my lathe and mill use resolvers. I even took a encoder off of one the lathe servos to fit a resolver.
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08 Sep 2017 17:05 #98705
by Nitram
Replied by Nitram on topic Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
Hi Andy.
You hit the nail on the head with the cost. I am trying to "future-proof" the machine by moving away from proprietary cards and thus expensive parts etc. I find the resolvers to be a weak link in my particular case given that they are considered somewhat of a consumable. By the time I get a replacement landed here in Australia the cost is quite prohibitive. Generic encoders are a better option in that regard and will therefore help me to keep the machine running further into the future. In this case we are talking orders of magnitude difference in $$$...
That said, from your perspective and expertise, is the card setup as listed above about right? I am looking to go ahead and order a set before the weekend in the USA.
Thanks again Andy.
Regards,
Marty.
You hit the nail on the head with the cost. I am trying to "future-proof" the machine by moving away from proprietary cards and thus expensive parts etc. I find the resolvers to be a weak link in my particular case given that they are considered somewhat of a consumable. By the time I get a replacement landed here in Australia the cost is quite prohibitive. Generic encoders are a better option in that regard and will therefore help me to keep the machine running further into the future. In this case we are talking orders of magnitude difference in $$$...
That said, from your perspective and expertise, is the card setup as listed above about right? I am looking to go ahead and order a set before the weekend in the USA.
Thanks again Andy.
Regards,
Marty.
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08 Sep 2017 19:19 - 08 Sep 2017 19:20 #98708
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
The 5i22 is very expensive.
I would suggest 5i24 as the PCI card with the 7i29s for servo / encoder and then use smart-serial via a 7i44 for all other IO.
(Pretty much what I used in my lathe, which is 5i24, 7i49, 7i44, 2 x 8i20, 7i43 and 7i84 for the GPIO)
I would suggest 5i24 as the PCI card with the 7i29s for servo / encoder and then use smart-serial via a 7i44 for all other IO.
(Pretty much what I used in my lathe, which is 5i24, 7i49, 7i44, 2 x 8i20, 7i43 and 7i84 for the GPIO)
Last edit: 08 Sep 2017 19:20 by andypugh.
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08 Sep 2017 19:25 #98709
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
There is a Mesa reseller in Aus: www.imc-systems.com.au/linuxcnc/
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22 Oct 2018 22:38 #119227
by COlger81
Replied by COlger81 on topic Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
I'm going through a retrofit of an AC Fadal 3016L. I have the mill running perfect with manual tool changes. I just started writing code for the non servo ATC in python. Is python the right method for the ATC or should i go with a different method?
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23 Oct 2018 10:09 #119250
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
Python is certainly an option, and has the advantage over Classic Ladder that it can very easily cause axis motion to take place. It is also fairly easy to set and read HAL pins. Furthermore it is very easy to configure LinuxCNC to call a Python routine whenever it sees an M6 (or, on a lathe, a T command)
In a HAL component your Python code can interact via HAL pins, send MDI commands and query machine state.
As a remapped routine I don't think that the code can create HAL pins but it can still query machine state. It can also issue canonical commands, which might be an advantage.
You could also consider offloading some of the work to the "carousel" HAL component. That is designed for moving various types of tool carousels to a requested slot position. (Though that is all it does). Carousel works well in conjunction with a G-code sequence, see sim/axis/vismac/VMC-toolchange for a couple of sample configs
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/python-interface.html
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/halmodule.html
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/remap/remap.html
github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master...mc/nml_intf/canon.hh (I don't think that the canonical command interface is documented other than by the code)
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/carousel.9.html
In a HAL component your Python code can interact via HAL pins, send MDI commands and query machine state.
As a remapped routine I don't think that the code can create HAL pins but it can still query machine state. It can also issue canonical commands, which might be an advantage.
You could also consider offloading some of the work to the "carousel" HAL component. That is designed for moving various types of tool carousels to a requested slot position. (Though that is all it does). Carousel works well in conjunction with a G-code sequence, see sim/axis/vismac/VMC-toolchange for a couple of sample configs
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/config/python-interface.html
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/hal/halmodule.html
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/remap/remap.html
github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master...mc/nml_intf/canon.hh (I don't think that the canonical command interface is documented other than by the code)
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man9/carousel.9.html
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23 Oct 2018 10:43 #119252
by COlger81
Replied by COlger81 on topic Fadal Retrofit - ATC cycle
I attached what i have so far written in python. For some reason, it does not want to read or execute the following;
if(SO is False):
This is telling it stop spindle when the hall sensor is in position for orientation.
if(SO is False):
This is telling it stop spindle when the hall sensor is in position for orientation.
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