New Project questions

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27 Oct 2011 20:14 #14332 by SRT
New Project questions was created by SRT
I have a Cincinnati Milacron turning center actually have 7 of them. I have been lurking on this site for a few weeks and am ready to pull a control off and tackle a retrofit using EMC. I am a machinist and thats it, but I think in time i can learn how to put this into operation with this system. I am ready to start ordering have been on the Mesa site and this is what I have come up with. Any input would be helpful.

1 Piece 5I22
1 Piece 7I33TA
3 Pieces 7I37TA

There are 26 limit switches on this machine alone. Tool turret, swing-up tail stock, travel ect........The bottom line is I need a lot of I/O. I would like a few opinions before I order.

Thank you

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27 Oct 2011 23:23 - 27 Oct 2011 23:24 #14333 by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:New Project questions
The 5i22 will give you the extra header for the 4th card and is a standard setup for converting machines. I've used the 5i20 on two machines. They do use 50 pin flat cables so don't forget to order them (one for each daughter card). There are sample configs to get you up and going. A popular pc is the Atom. I have a couple of D525's and they are quite small but give good latency and have one PCI slot. If you have a pc in mind then just boot from the livecd and check the latency. I assume your drives are velocity drives with encoder feedback to the old control, if so it is not too hard to convert. Also, you need 3mm stand offs for the daughter cards (I made mine on my CHNC).

John
Last edit: 27 Oct 2011 23:24 by BigJohnT.

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27 Oct 2011 23:47 #14335 by SRT
Replied by SRT on topic Re:New Project questions
Thank you for the feedback. The electronics are some what of a mystery but after reading the manuals and looking on the forums I am starting to learn to crawl. Yes, I am trying to use the existing axis and spindle drives with the encoder feedback. The main thing is I have 9 employees and this needs to be safe and run kind of like it did before the retrofit thus the need for all of the i/o. Two speed gear box, hydraulic chuck ans all of the safety features built into a OEM machine. I am still trying to figure out if this set-up has enough i/o.

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28 Oct 2011 00:19 #14336 by SRT
Replied by SRT on topic Re:New Project questions
That leads me to ask another question. How would I get more I/o than this set-up?

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28 Oct 2011 10:04 #14339 by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic Re:New Project questions
SRT wrote:

That leads me to ask another question. How would I get more I/o than this set-up?


Have a look at the 7i64, 7i69, 7i70, 7i71.

These cards connect via a fast serial interface. You can connect up to 8 individual cards to a single 5i22/5i23 header (normally via a 7i44). One header full of 1x7i44 + 8x 7i64 would be 192 x 48V inputs plus 192 x 48V outputs.

You might want to try to contact Stuart Stevenson, who retrofitted this 5-axis Cincinatti. I believe that is using the Pico PPMC hardware.

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28 Oct 2011 14:02 #14341 by SRT
Replied by SRT on topic Re:New Project questions
Does the EMC config lend itself any better to the Mesa or Pico Systems hardware? Is one any more user friendly than the other. What about support from the vendors themselves?

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28 Oct 2011 15:48 #14344 by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:New Project questions
Both vendors participate on the forum and have sample configs with EMC. What is better is to be determined by your needs, so study both hardware offerings and see what is best for you. I personally don't have any of the Pico hardware so I can't comment on it.

John

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29 Oct 2011 04:27 #14359 by jmelson
Replied by jmelson on topic Re:New Project questions
SRT wrote:

Does the EMC config lend itself any better to the Mesa or Pico Systems hardware? Is one any more user friendly than the other. What about support from the vendors themselves?

They are similar in the way EMC supports the hardware. There are different philosophies
on the two systems. The Pico scheme is very fixed, ie. each board does it's specific
function (encoder input, analog output, digital I/O). Also, everything you need is ON
the boards, there are no cables, breakout boards, adapters, etc. needed. So, the
digital I/O board does not use external IO mounting panels, the inputs are on the
board, and there are positions for 8 solid state relays to mount directly on the board.

The Mesa way, if I can be so bold as to explain my competitor's product, is to have
one master board which can be software-configured to do almost any combination
of functions, and then you add adapter boards to set it up for specific functions.

So, I think the Mesa is a bit more flexible, but may be a bit harder to configure
due to all the possible options.

I support the PPMC users as well as I can. I'm going out to a customer's
site tomorrow to advise on first startup of the system. (I usually can't
do that due to distance, but this one is fairly close.) I only support EMC
on my hardware, I think Mesa mostly supports other motion-control
software.

And, of course, you need to take anything I say with a grain of salt, not so
much that I'm pushing my own product but maybe that it is all so familiar
to me that it seems simple. I do have some schematics online and am glad
to consult on any questions that come up.

Jon

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29 Oct 2011 14:24 #14379 by SRT
Replied by SRT on topic Re:New Project questions
Thanks Jon your product does seem a bit more straight forward to me the more I research and learn. I do believe my problem is the input. It will need a 60 Inputs and 20 Outputs to keep this machine fairly close to operating the OEM way. This machine has 76 DC inputs and 33 Outputs before reto-fit.

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29 Oct 2011 16:11 - 29 Oct 2011 16:13 #14383 by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:New Project questions
A Mesa 5i20 + 7i33TA (servos and encoders) + 7i46 6 channel SPI breakout card + up to 6 7i64's connected to the 7i46 and you can have 144 inputs and 144 outputs and still have a 50 pin header open on the 5i20. I'm fairly sure that is a valid combo supported by EMC... just to be sure I asked on the IRC and I'm waiting on a reply. I think I saw that combo in a topic here...

duh there is a list of supported cards in the FAQ on this forum...

John
Last edit: 29 Oct 2011 16:13 by BigJohnT. Reason: smack on forhead

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