VFD calculation.

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25 Sep 2022 11:15 #252701 by chris@cnc
VFD calculation. was created by chris@cnc
Hello, i have three-phase induction motor an and want to control him over VFD. I've 230V 1Ph input power only and need 3Ph 230V for the motor. First Idea was to take a 1,5KW VFD, but i have the feeling that might be too simple calculation. I search around about but found not clear example. Next idea was U * sqrt3 * I * cos phi = 230V * 1,732 * 5,5A * 0,85 = 1,85KW * 3 phase = 5,5 KW VFD Maybe someone can explain how to do it right.
Thanks
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25 Sep 2022 11:48 #252706 by arvidb
Replied by arvidb on topic VFD calculation.
I'm not an expert on VFD:s by any means. That said, power is power, it's just spread over three phases when you power the motor. You should be able to power that motor with a VFD rated for 1.5 kW at 230 VAC.

If the VFD is a 400 VAC type that can be run at 1 phase 230 VAC as well, then it should be rated at >2.6kW @ 400VAC. (The limiting factor is current, and 1.5kW/230VAC*400VAC ≈ 2.6kW.)
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25 Sep 2022 11:51 #252708 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic VFD calculation.
1.5KW VFD will do just fine, just make sure the motor is wired in DELTA mode, not Y.
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26 Sep 2022 15:33 - 26 Sep 2022 15:34 #252775 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic VFD calculation.
I thought when running a VFD on single phase you usually had to derate it by some factor (I didn't think it was quite 1/3). So that you would need about a 4kw drive to run a 1.5kw motor from single phase.
Last edit: 26 Sep 2022 15:34 by Todd Zuercher.
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26 Sep 2022 15:48 #252779 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic VFD calculation.
It might be different for different drive manufacturers, but some of the Lenze drives I have say that you need to multiply the motor's rating by 1.73 to get the needed drive rating when running off of single phase. So for that motor you'd need a drive rated for 9.5amps at 230v. (or about 2.6kw)
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26 Sep 2022 16:11 #252781 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic VFD calculation.

I've 230V 1Ph input power only and need 3Ph 230V for the motor.

Get a single phase VFD rated for 1.5KW.
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No complications there, it is as simple as that, 1.5KW VFD for 1.5KW motor, the ONLY thing is get a single phase VFD.
Even 3 phase 220V input will work for sure, but due to rectifiers used it would be better to get a 2.2KW one.
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26 Sep 2022 20:35 #252800 by chris@cnc
Replied by chris@cnc on topic VFD calculation.
Thank you guys,
I take a look around, and it depends on VFD manufacturer. The Chinese VFD documentation is between nothing and hope. I look in some Fuji or Danfoss VFD manuals.
 What i read, if inverter type and source power correct i can use data of type label.  But like you said i can wire 400V VFD to single phase 230V. In that case VFD size should be 1,73 bigger than motor power. 
I have to order this VFD and will take the suitable single phase one.
For example the FRN1,5C1 has in single phase wiring 230V = 6,1A output power. And this looks right to my motor. The 2,2KW version has 9,2A output power. Looks little too much...
 

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27 Sep 2022 12:34 - 27 Sep 2022 12:39 #252855 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic VFD calculation.
I doubt you could use a 400v drive on 230v single phase (unless the manual says it can). All the drives I've worked with will shut down if not fed near their rated voltage. I think a 400v drive would need at minimum 380v single phase. You'll need a 200-240v drive to run off of 230v.
Last edit: 27 Sep 2022 12:39 by Todd Zuercher.
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27 Sep 2022 16:15 #252863 by chris@cnc
Replied by chris@cnc on topic VFD calculation.
I repaired today atc unit on a mill and check this. You are right, if only one phase wired i got DC low voltage alarm. 
For my surprise, it was 1.5KW Fuji motor and 3,7KW Fuji VFD. 
This works since more than 10 years with millions of tool change.
I try to get some rules how to put motor and VFD together but i am now back on start line.
I don't understand why this system works. It must be somthing more as put motor and VFD power together. 
First note to me, Source power and driver must be equal.
Open question, How to select motor and VDF power?

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27 Sep 2022 16:55 #252867 by Todd Zuercher
Replied by Todd Zuercher on topic VFD calculation.
You will also find that many better 3 phase drives will error out if one of the 3 phases are lost, unless they are specifically rated to run on single phase and have a parameter to disable the phase loss alarm.

Remember single phase is any time you are only using 2 legs of a 3 phase, or a single leg to neutral. (There is no such thing as 2 phase.)

So for example with normal low voltage AC (in the USA) you can have 4 wires (plus a ground), one is neutral, and 3 will be 115v to neutral, any pairing of the 3 hot wires will be 230v single phase, and all 3 together will be 230v 3 phase. (Please don't add the possibility of wild leg transformers to the discussion, its confusing enough the way it is.)

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