Need help brushless spindle DIY !

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30 Apr 2017 16:46 #92355 by wanabemachinist
Hi,
I ordered this motor sec ago.
N5065 380KV 1665W High Efficiency Brushless Motor For Drones Multicopter Skate Scooter Skateboard Set DIY Electric Skate Board

it was a cheapest solution...
Specs are:

Model: 5065
Rotational Speed:380 (kv) RPM/V
Lithium polymer battery: 3S-8S
Nickel-cadmium / nickel-metal hydride batteries: 9S-24S
Propeller (inch): 16 * 10/18 * 10 / 18.5 * 12
Electricity adjustment (A): 80
The shaft length: 20mm
Shaft diameter: 8mm
Weight: 380g
Rally value: 3KG-5.5KG
Power: 1665W
Resistance: 20mΩ
Continuous current: 80A
Reactive current: 2A
Input voltage: 3-8Cells lipo
Effective utilization rate: 98%
Supporting oar size: 14x10 / 15x10 / 16x10
Motor length: 56MM
Motor diameter: 50MM

I want to build a spindle. I understood mechanical part, and i read a lot of old threads about electronics, but that is a very confusing matter for me.
I decided and ordered this motor to start with. Is it of any good?
So... mu primary question is :
What is the proper type of electronics (and cheapest solutions for ESC and/or other "elctro things" ) that i must buy to hook up this motor to arduino+cnc shield v3 setup that i already have?
Some explanations , schematic and links for parts would be most appreciated.
At the end, just to mention that, i do not expect much from this project. I just want to try.
Cheers.

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02 May 2017 12:00 #92513 by andypugh
I think that the best drive for the motor is likely to come from the same source as the motor. These model aircraft motors are rather high-current and low-voltage compared to traditional machine-tool motors.
Assuming that you don't intend to run the spindle from a battery pack, you will need a 24V / 80A PSU.

You probably want to avoid running the motor at full rated current for very long, as these rather rely on having a big propeller on the end to cool them, so a smaller PSU might suffice.

By the time you have bought an ESC and PSU it might have been cheaper to buy an off-the-shelf spindle such as:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252865741715
(This is not a recommendation, just an example. That one is water-cooled which might be more trouble than you need, too)
The following user(s) said Thank You: wanabemachinist

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02 May 2017 19:14 #92537 by wanabemachinist
What is the max rpm i`ll get from cheap "brucelee" 12V/30A psu on this model motor?
Is then 30A esc sufficient?

P.S.Motor was cheapest one, and it was "instant purchase", to motivate myself to wake up from laziness
and build the spindle.
To mention, i am building small size desktop router, but very rigid one ( for this build size of-course ).
Mechanical part is 90% done.I will post some pictures here soon.
Cheers!

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02 May 2017 19:51 #92541 by andypugh
12V will give you 4560 rpm.

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02 May 2017 21:21 - 02 May 2017 21:23 #92545 by wanabemachinist
I figured out the math 12x380kv=4560, thanks anyway,
but what i do not understand is: are those 30amps from psu suffice, or psu will just explode... on continuous max.
Then...is an 30A esc will "drive" this setup correctly ? Or... is a ( for example) 80A esc good or bad for motor+psu combo.
I am a little confused and unfamiliar with all. Please explain.
Some more questions:
1.As i read some cnc topics 4500rpm would be good enough for alu, even steel, with proper torque?
2. Has this motor have enough torque at 12v/30A ?

P.S.I seen the link, and yeah, this is the real thing, but even that this is a "entry" level spindle, it is too much for me at this moment.
My calculations are:
-motor ~ $27,
-esc ~ $10,
-psu ~ nothing ( i`ll modify some atx, already have, and if this wouldn`t work, i`ll use a proper 12v/30a psu already have too) , but let`s say it is ~ $25,
-servo tester ~$3, ( maybe, clone arduino uno + display for controlling rpm...ect. ~ $10
-machining assembly parts ~ nothing ( cousin will do it)
- bearings = ? ~ $4(pair for skate) or ~$20 (good angular dblRw ones)?
-C8 ER11A 100L Collet Straight Shank Chuck Holder ~ $6

So... it`s ~ $60 -$80 for all ( in my case , excluded parts and machining i have for nothing)
This is far from $150+, and learning is priceless game, also!
Cheers!
Last edit: 02 May 2017 21:23 by wanabemachinist.

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02 May 2017 23:46 #92555 by tommylight
4500 rpm can not do for metal unless using a 3 to 5KW spindle with cooling and everything, alu with 6 or 8mm end mill yes but requires more torque, 3mm end mill would require at least 15000 rpm for anything useful so it might just be usable for alu, i would sugest much higher rpm by increasing the voltage for the ESC.
The main problem is you would need something to convert the PWM signal form the computer to ESC signal that it requires, 1.2-2.2 ms, if i remember correctly (over 25 years since i have done anything RC related ).
You can connect it directly but figuring out the exact PWM values that would give the 1.2-2.2ms timing is gona be very hard. I know someone on this forum did that with limited succes but i can not find the post.
Regarding power suplyes, you can wire 2 computer power suplyes in series, but you have to dismantle one of them and diconnect every grounding on it, or use one without the grounding wire and isolate it so they can not touch each other. That will give you 24V at whatever amps the weakest power supply can handle.
As for exploding power supply, most of them have current limiting and will shut down if pushed to far, all PC ones have that, so no worries there, if you push it to far they will just stop.

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03 May 2017 02:34 - 03 May 2017 02:36 #92557 by wanabemachinist
Thanks, yours comments has been very helpful to me so far.

...would sugest much higher rpm by increasing the voltage for the ESC

If i understand you correctly , it is just applying 24v psu to esc or even higher as my motor can take 8s lipo (8x3.7v=29.6v).

What will happen if i give motor 24v, but not enough amps for example 10a, (24x10=240W) juice?

...Regarding power suplyes, you can wire 2 computer power suplyes in series...

I`ve seen some video instructions on how to get 24v from one atx by hooking +12 and -12.
Is that good or bad for this setup?
Last edit: 03 May 2017 02:36 by wanabemachinist.

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03 May 2017 10:05 #92565 by tommylight
24V/10A might be enough for what you need but most PC PS can do more especialy the Dell worstation PS, had a 1000W one with 5 times 12V/18A.
The only thing that will happen with 24V/10A is PS will shut down stopping the spindle, breaking the tool.....
-12V on PC PS is way to underpowered, usually 1 to 1.5A so that is useless for you.
Make it work with 12V, later you can add PS for more speed.

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03 May 2017 11:01 #92566 by andypugh
It isn't hard to make an unregulated PSU.

www.ebay.com/itm/24V-LARGE-POWER-TRANSFO...d:g:AI4AAOSwrhBZCRLN

+ rectifier + capacitor.

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