Retrofitting SCM Record 121
- MobilierGuibert
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18 Jun 2023 16:55 #273790
by MobilierGuibert
Retrofitting SCM Record 121 was created by MobilierGuibert
Hello everyone,
I am new to the forum. I bought not long ago a SCM Record 121 from 2001 for professional use. I got it for a very low price so I couldn't say no. Not used that much, issues not fixed by users (in a school)...
Anyway I am from 2 weeks on it trying to make it works. After repairing 2 capacitors on the PC and the controller (NUM1040), I am still struggling to make the machine works (axis are working in manual mode, but button start cycle does not do anything). I cannot figure out what's wrong with it. I loaded the saved parameters and it says to me "RAM CN insuficient" so 2 files cannot be loaded on the controller. If anyone as an idea to help, I would be really happy.
Anyway, the system is old, slow and not friendly. I am thinking of retrofitting with linuxcnc.
Considering that I have all the electrical schematics, The saved parameters from factory, and the software from NUM to see the Ladders .XLA files. I have also some kind of drivers files for the Yaskawa drivers and servos.
Questions:
- The NUM controller is good, can I use linuxcnc to communicate directly with it?
- In case of changing for mesa boards, I don't know where to start, what would be the first step?
I would be happy to share this retrofit journey on the forum.
Thanks,
Stephane
I am new to the forum. I bought not long ago a SCM Record 121 from 2001 for professional use. I got it for a very low price so I couldn't say no. Not used that much, issues not fixed by users (in a school)...
Anyway I am from 2 weeks on it trying to make it works. After repairing 2 capacitors on the PC and the controller (NUM1040), I am still struggling to make the machine works (axis are working in manual mode, but button start cycle does not do anything). I cannot figure out what's wrong with it. I loaded the saved parameters and it says to me "RAM CN insuficient" so 2 files cannot be loaded on the controller. If anyone as an idea to help, I would be really happy.
Anyway, the system is old, slow and not friendly. I am thinking of retrofitting with linuxcnc.
Considering that I have all the electrical schematics, The saved parameters from factory, and the software from NUM to see the Ladders .XLA files. I have also some kind of drivers files for the Yaskawa drivers and servos.
Questions:
- The NUM controller is good, can I use linuxcnc to communicate directly with it?
- In case of changing for mesa boards, I don't know where to start, what would be the first step?
I would be happy to share this retrofit journey on the forum.
Thanks,
Stephane
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18 Jun 2023 17:04 #273791
by Aciera
First thing you'll need to know for a refit is what interface those yaskawa drivers are using. Could be analog (eg +-10V), digital (step/direction) or some serial communication protocol. If you can upload some pictures of the driver plates and/or relevant schematics there may be users who can tell you that if you don't already know.
Replied by Aciera on topic Retrofitting SCM Record 121
Not likely as linuxcnc would actually replace the controller.The NUM controller is good, can I use linuxcnc to communicate directly with it?
First thing you'll need to know for a refit is what interface those yaskawa drivers are using. Could be analog (eg +-10V), digital (step/direction) or some serial communication protocol. If you can upload some pictures of the driver plates and/or relevant schematics there may be users who can tell you that if you don't already know.
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18 Jun 2023 19:02 #273800
by MobilierGuibert
Servo drives are Yaskawa SGDB series (SGDB-10-VD for axis Y and Z), (SGDB-20-VD for X axis).
If I understand the specifications it is driven by analog +/-12V. Am I right? Or it seems there are other types of controls.
These pages are from the TSE-S800-16E pdf available online.
Replied by MobilierGuibert on topic Retrofitting SCM Record 121
Thanks,
The NUM controller is good, can I use linuxcnc to communicate directly with it?Not likely as linuxcnc would actually replace the controller.First thing you'll need to know for a refit is what interface those yaskawa drivers are using. Could be analog (eg -10V), digital (step/direction) or some serial communication protocol. If you can upload some pictures of the driver plates and/or relevant schematics there may be users who can tell you that if you don't already know.Thanks,The servos drives are Yaskawa SGDB-10-VD for X and Y, I think SGDB-20 for X.SGDB series drives documentation
Servo drives are Yaskawa SGDB series (SGDB-10-VD for axis Y and Z), (SGDB-20-VD for X axis).
If I understand the specifications it is driven by analog +/-12V. Am I right? Or it seems there are other types of controls.
These pages are from the TSE-S800-16E pdf available online.
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18 Jun 2023 22:32 - 18 Jun 2023 22:40 #273811
by Aciera
Replied by Aciera on topic Retrofitting SCM Record 121
I'm not familiar with yaskawa but it looks like you can use step/dir for position mode and use the encoder output of the drive for positional feedback for the linuxcnc digital readout. This would be rather easy to interface to.
What about the spindle, does that use the same servo drive?
[edit]
the (+-2V to +-10V) analog input would be for torque/speed mode where you would have to close the PID loop in linuxcnc. I presume your motor encoders go directly to the servo drive as the drive has an encoder output so they are probably already running in step/direction (ie positional) mode. The spindle drive may be different. A look at the schematic may give clarification here.
What about the spindle, does that use the same servo drive?
[edit]
the (+-2V to +-10V) analog input would be for torque/speed mode where you would have to close the PID loop in linuxcnc. I presume your motor encoders go directly to the servo drive as the drive has an encoder output so they are probably already running in step/direction (ie positional) mode. The spindle drive may be different. A look at the schematic may give clarification here.
Last edit: 18 Jun 2023 22:40 by Aciera.
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19 Jun 2023 09:53 #273832
by gitin
Replied by gitin on topic Retrofitting SCM Record 121
With Yaskawa I used MESA 7i96 (what I found).
I made the circuit in QElectroTech. If you need all sheets in QElectroTech format, send tomorrow. I am 71 years old. I don't know English very well. If I wrote something wrong, please forgive me.
I made the circuit in QElectroTech. If you need all sheets in QElectroTech format, send tomorrow. I am 71 years old. I don't know English very well. If I wrote something wrong, please forgive me.
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19 Jun 2023 11:13 - 19 Jun 2023 11:18 #273839
by MobilierGuibert
Replied by MobilierGuibert on topic Retrofitting SCM Record 121
gitin can you add your email adress on your profile? to contact you. ThanksWith Yaskawa I used MESA 7i96 (what I found).
I made the circuit in QElectroTech. If you need all sheets in QElectroTech format, send tomorrow. I am 71 years old. I don't know English very well. If I wrote something wrong, please forgive me.
Thanks for that, I will send you a mp, sure it will help me on this project.
@Aciera the Spindle drive is a KEB Combivert F4 (I attached the page of terminal wiring).
Last edit: 19 Jun 2023 11:18 by MobilierGuibert. Reason: request more information from gitin
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19 Jun 2023 11:18 #273840
by Aciera
Replied by Aciera on topic Retrofitting SCM Record 121
Note that private messaging is disabled in this forum.I will send you a mp,
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19 Jun 2023 11:40 #273844
by Aciera
Replied by Aciera on topic Retrofitting SCM Record 121
Looks like the spindle is a regular analog command. I'm not certain about the most recent mesa hardware but with most boards a max voltage swing of 15V (eg -7.5/+7.5V) used to be possible so for -10..+10V you might need to use a relay to switch the analog output voltage from the board. Your KEB Cmbivert might also provide parameters to scale the spindle speed to other voltage ranges like 0..10V or -5..+5V or a reversal using digital inputs.
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19 Jun 2023 12:00 #273848
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Retrofitting SCM Record 121
Mesa 7i77 can do +-11V on all 6 analog outputs, measured with a DVM and no load.
This is limited in hal to 10V usually, and that works properly as i have checked several times, limiting that to 5V will actually limit the output voltage to +-5V.
I tend to use this when tuning stubborn servo drives to avoid something flying off of the machine, by setting that to 1, then 3, then 5, and finally to full out when tuning is roughly ok. Be aware that this hinders tuning a lot.
This is limited in hal to 10V usually, and that works properly as i have checked several times, limiting that to 5V will actually limit the output voltage to +-5V.
I tend to use this when tuning stubborn servo drives to avoid something flying off of the machine, by setting that to 1, then 3, then 5, and finally to full out when tuning is roughly ok. Be aware that this hinders tuning a lot.
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19 Jun 2023 13:07 #273852
by Aciera
Replied by Aciera on topic Retrofitting SCM Record 121
Isn't the 7i77 only for analog motor interface?
The thing is that in this case a step/dir card is needed for the axes motors so buying a 7i77 just for the spindle may be a bit excessive.
The thing is that in this case a step/dir card is needed for the axes motors so buying a 7i77 just for the spindle may be a bit excessive.
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