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matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
20 Jul 2023 06:08 #275860
by camb0
Replied by camb0 on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
Thx JR for the offer of the resolver, ideally I would put the encoder/resolver on the spindle and not the motor where it is at the moment (motor/spindle is belt driven). I'll keep the resolver it in mind and if I get stuck with my plan A (well B actually).
I bought a quadrature encoder (plan a) which should work with my mesa 7i96/7i76 combo and this will fit where the existing resolver is. But after looking at installing on the spindle (plan b) there's very little room once the tool change piston/mechanism is in place. So l think I might change tack and look into an optical/disc style that will install easier and be protected (plan c).
Re the controller it was an MX1 with CRT. Now's got a 23" touch screen.
I bought a quadrature encoder (plan a) which should work with my mesa 7i96/7i76 combo and this will fit where the existing resolver is. But after looking at installing on the spindle (plan b) there's very little room once the tool change piston/mechanism is in place. So l think I might change tack and look into an optical/disc style that will install easier and be protected (plan c).
Re the controller it was an MX1 with CRT. Now's got a 23" touch screen.
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20 Jul 2023 06:15 #275861
by camb0
Replied by camb0 on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
Rod I had a chat to Jimmy at Conon and they look they have a VFD (BD600) size that will do the job, he's got both single and 3 phase for that capacity. It's not cheap but not silly either.
He made some comment that MODBUS won't work as the software has recently been upgraded, I'm not sure we were hearing/understanding each other very well so I'll double check that before I head down that path.
Tonights reading will be to go through the manual and see if I can figure out if it might work (the next question is can I make it work
). Hopefully I get some more info from Yaskawa overnight.
He made some comment that MODBUS won't work as the software has recently been upgraded, I'm not sure we were hearing/understanding each other very well so I'll double check that before I head down that path.
Tonights reading will be to go through the manual and see if I can figure out if it might work (the next question is can I make it work
). Hopefully I get some more info from Yaskawa overnight.
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24 Jul 2023 09:48 #276138
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
If you have a 7i76 you can control the VFD with analogue voltage, so you don't need Modbus. (and this gives realtime control, which most LinuxCNC Modbus solutions don't offer)
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26 Jul 2023 10:43 #276294
by camb0
Replied by camb0 on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
Thx Andy for the suggestion. When you say Modbus isn't realtime I assume that means you sometimes or always see a delay, is it 0.25/0.5/1s delay or does it vary?
I tried searching but I couldn't find anything specifc.
I tried searching but I couldn't find anything specifc.
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26 Jul 2023 11:02 - 26 Jul 2023 11:03 #276295
by camb0
Replied by camb0 on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
After checking through the BD600 manual I worked out I had the 4-5 base motor parameters, I could probably do with some more data but it was enough to make the purchase decision.
I've had a play with it and managed to get the motor running in VF mode and then later in torque vector mode. Torque vector mode has some issues at lower frequencies/speeds, it seems to get some unstable jolts now again, not sure how to smooth that out but that's something I can work on.
I was going to try the modbus connection next while I'm testing subsystems (will see what Andy says re the realtime comms).
Anyhow here's the settings I used for the BD600 to get the spindle running (might help someone else). It uses the control panel potentiometer to set the frequency/speed, I didn't do the last command to change the display to RPM as I couldn't quickly work out how to set the value.
I've had a play with it and managed to get the motor running in VF mode and then later in torque vector mode. Torque vector mode has some issues at lower frequencies/speeds, it seems to get some unstable jolts now again, not sure how to smooth that out but that's something I can work on.
I was going to try the modbus connection next while I'm testing subsystems (will see what Andy says re the realtime comms).
Anyhow here's the settings I used for the BD600 to get the spindle running (might help someone else). It uses the control panel potentiometer to set the frequency/speed, I didn't do the last command to change the display to RPM as I couldn't quickly work out how to set the value.
F00.28 1 Factory restore
F00.28 2 Clear fault file
F00.11 2 Frequency Reference Resolution (do this if you run low Hz like, and do this first otherwise you have to redo the motor settings)
F00.00 2 Speed Control Mode start with V/F (=2), later will try torque vector control (=0)
F00.01 0 Command Source Selection
F00.03 137 Max Output Frequency
F00.04 137 Run Frequency – Upper Limit
F00.05 6.29 Run Frequency – Lower Limit
F00.06 10 Frequency A command selection, 10 potentiometer, later will try RS485
F00.10 10 Keypad Setting Frequency, start above min speed.
F00.12 10 Acceleration time s
F00.13 10 Decceleration time s
F00.17 8 Carrier frequency
F02.01 5 Motor Rated Power: (Ensure that you choose the correct motor power rating for your spindle)
F01.01 10 Startup frequency
F01.05 1 Accel/Decel mode 1= S curve startup
F02.00 0 Motor type selection
F02.01 5 Rated power of async motor 1
F02.02 137 Motor Rated Frequency
F02.03 4000 Motor Rated Speed
F02.04 200 Motor Rated Voltage
F02.05 32 Motor Rated Current: (Ensure that you choose the correct motor current for your spindle)
F03.28 137 Upper frequency limit of forward when torque control
F03.29 137 Upper frequency limit of reverse when torque control
F04.02 50 Cut-off frequency o fmotor 1 torque boost
F07.03 11 If you wish to change the VFD display from Frequency (Hz) to RPM, use the following parameters
F07.12 0 Decimal Points for Speed Display
Last edit: 26 Jul 2023 11:03 by camb0. Reason: Fixing formatting
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26 Jul 2023 11:46 #276299
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
Modbus itself is realtime, but most LinuxCNC implementations use a USB dongle and a user-space (non-realtime) interface program.
Ocasionally, if the PC stalls, you might see a delay in the transmission of a speed change message.
For a mill this is probably not very important, except during rigid-tapping operations.
It _is_ possible to connect Modbus to the serial UART (smart serial expansion port) on the 7i76 using a newly-written driver system, and that would work in realtime, but is pretty much untested "in the wild" still.
I think that using the built-in spindle inerface on the 7i76 probably makes the most sense.
Ocasionally, if the PC stalls, you might see a delay in the transmission of a speed change message.
For a mill this is probably not very important, except during rigid-tapping operations.
It _is_ possible to connect Modbus to the serial UART (smart serial expansion port) on the 7i76 using a newly-written driver system, and that would work in realtime, but is pretty much untested "in the wild" still.
I think that using the built-in spindle inerface on the 7i76 probably makes the most sense.
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26 Jul 2023 11:55 #276300
by camb0
Replied by camb0 on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
That makes a lot of sense, thx.
So my options are:
-7i76 Analogue 0-10v
-USB-485 dongle -> modbus VFDMOD (and put up with some delays)
-Alpha/Beta test the new module
I'm not sure I'll end up rigid tapping with the mill, so the realtime nature of the speed control may be less of an issue. However I do like that with the Modbus a number of other VFD params are available, however would I use them long term? I don't have the experience to tell as yet.
I assume this is the new driver mentioned in this thread:
forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/49616-mesa-modbus-and-pktuart#276298
So my options are:
-7i76 Analogue 0-10v
-USB-485 dongle -> modbus VFDMOD (and put up with some delays)
-Alpha/Beta test the new module
I'm not sure I'll end up rigid tapping with the mill, so the realtime nature of the speed control may be less of an issue. However I do like that with the Modbus a number of other VFD params are available, however would I use them long term? I don't have the experience to tell as yet.
I assume this is the new driver mentioned in this thread:
forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/49616-mesa-modbus-and-pktuart#276298
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26 Jul 2023 15:43 #276312
by spumco
Replied by spumco on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
0-10v and modbus are not mutually exclusive. You can use 0-10v & digital inputs to control spindle on/dir/speed, and still use modbus to get information from the VFD (amps, temp, actual freq, etc.).
Eliminates potential latency during time-sensitive operation (tapping), but you don't have to deal with an analog signal back to LCNC for spindle load.
Eliminates potential latency during time-sensitive operation (tapping), but you don't have to deal with an analog signal back to LCNC for spindle load.
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07 Nov 2023 01:49 #284742
by Druid_ON
Replied by Druid_ON on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
Possible solution
jelinux.pico-systems.com/resolver.html
Also you could convert the v-belt drive to a timing belt drive which would give a dead accurate spindle speed needed for rigid tapping.
jelinux.pico-systems.com/resolver.html
Also you could convert the v-belt drive to a timing belt drive which would give a dead accurate spindle speed needed for rigid tapping.
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07 Nov 2023 01:57 #284743
by Druid_ON
Replied by Druid_ON on topic matsuura mc500v mill - VFD advice for spindle motor 80's yaskawa UAASE-5K)
Can you use a rotary phase converter to get 3 phase 220VAC fron single phase 220VAC?
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