Losing Z steps
- hazmat
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29 Dec 2011 14:30 #16075
by hazmat
Losing Z steps was created by hazmat
I am using EMC on a Harbor Freight mill retrofit (using a Geckodrive G540 parallel port driver for the steppers) and while it has been working great, I recently tried to do some engraving, which has some very small motions in the Z axis- The tool position gradually gets higher and higher above the workpiece, and if I let it go, after 10 characters, it is easily 0.1" above. I tried working with the g-code to make the Z motions integral multiples of the step size (even moving to the raw step size to try to eliminate the microstepping), but that doesn't improve things. Thankfully, the error is always positive, so the tool moves away (rather than deeper) from the workpiece. This is really frustrating, and I'm not sure what is the best way to further diagnose this problem.
Regards,
Matt
Regards,
Matt
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- BigJohnT
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29 Dec 2011 15:01 #16076
by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:Losing Z steps
I would guess your acceleration is set too high for that axis as you have to move against gravity but that doesn't make sense that your moving up... run some stepper tests on the Z to see if it is loosing steps. Check for binding in the Z axis as well or anything else that might inhibit motion.
linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_Stepper_Diagnostics.html#r1_3
What voltage are you driving the G540 with?
John
linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common_Stepper_Diagnostics.html#r1_3
What voltage are you driving the G540 with?
John
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- cncbasher
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29 Dec 2011 15:27 #16077
by cncbasher
Replied by cncbasher on topic Re:Losing Z steps
if your using microstepping , i'd try reducing the microstep , also you say adjusting the step size to suit z motion's ?
give the indications of the type of ballscrew size , pitch , any belts etc and lets see , how the figures work out etc
give the indications of the type of ballscrew size , pitch , any belts etc and lets see , how the figures work out etc
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- BigJohnT
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29 Dec 2011 15:31 - 29 Dec 2011 15:31 #16078
by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:Losing Z steps
The G540 step input is fixed at 10 micosteps and the step output morphs to no micosteps as the speed increases and the cross over point is settable by a pot iirc.
www.geckodrive.com/ark-2/support.html?pid=14&id=25
John
www.geckodrive.com/ark-2/support.html?pid=14&id=25
John
Last edit: 29 Dec 2011 15:31 by BigJohnT.
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- hazmat
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29 Dec 2011 16:20 #16079
by hazmat
Replied by hazmat on topic Re:Losing Z steps
I'm driving the motors at 24V at 2.2A. The motors are rated at 2.5A. I will try running the tests you pointed out. I see that the test program points out if I have a problem, but what is the best way to choose the values? I was pretty conservative when I did the initial setup, keeping the max velocity and acceleration low (This is a hobby setup and I did not see a need to push the limits for speed, particularly as I'm also learning at the same time).
While I didn't adjust acceleration in my engraving file, I did experiment with keeping the feed rate very slow- down to 0.1 ipm, and that did not affect losing steps- I still lost steps.
Looking back at the initialization files, I may have made a mistake in my calculation with respect to adjusting for step size- I had calculated the step size multiple with respect to the X/Y, which is 32,000 microsteps per inch, while the Z is 20,000. Even with using a non-integral size, I shouldn't be losing steps, right? Particularly if I'm just transitioning between 2 different Z positions, one for cutting, and the other for moving to the next spot.
Thanks for the help. This software (and community) is pretty awesome.
While I didn't adjust acceleration in my engraving file, I did experiment with keeping the feed rate very slow- down to 0.1 ipm, and that did not affect losing steps- I still lost steps.
Looking back at the initialization files, I may have made a mistake in my calculation with respect to adjusting for step size- I had calculated the step size multiple with respect to the X/Y, which is 32,000 microsteps per inch, while the Z is 20,000. Even with using a non-integral size, I shouldn't be losing steps, right? Particularly if I'm just transitioning between 2 different Z positions, one for cutting, and the other for moving to the next spot.
Thanks for the help. This software (and community) is pretty awesome.
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- BigJohnT
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29 Dec 2011 16:30 #16080
by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:Losing Z steps
Here is some info on stepper formulas to calculate voltage and other things.
wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Formulas
The speed is only a part of the equation, the acceleration and deceleration are the other part. Keep in mind that during direction reversal that the software will generate steps as fast as the acceleration setting will allow it to to reach the commanded speed. So run the test, then try cutting your acceleration in half and run again.
Is your Z axis counter balanced?
Also, 24 volts might be a bit anemic and would limit the acceleration and top speed of the stepper motors. The higher the voltage the faster you can accelerate and the faster you can go within limits.
John
wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Stepper_Formulas
The speed is only a part of the equation, the acceleration and deceleration are the other part. Keep in mind that during direction reversal that the software will generate steps as fast as the acceleration setting will allow it to to reach the commanded speed. So run the test, then try cutting your acceleration in half and run again.
Is your Z axis counter balanced?
Also, 24 volts might be a bit anemic and would limit the acceleration and top speed of the stepper motors. The higher the voltage the faster you can accelerate and the faster you can go within limits.
John
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- hazmat
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30 Dec 2011 14:03 #16119
by hazmat
Replied by hazmat on topic Re:Losing Z steps
I ran the code that you (John) suggested- and the tool ends up exactly at .5 above the table- I lower it to zero, and it was perfect.
From your experience, does this mean that the acceleration is set to an acceptable level? I understand I could do better if I went to a higher voltage drive, but as I understand it, it isn't the root of my problem.
I don't have any binding in the Z axis. I'm using the spring arm that came with the mill as the counterbalance- I understand that it doesn't provide near 100%, but it is something.
From your experience, does this mean that the acceleration is set to an acceptable level? I understand I could do better if I went to a higher voltage drive, but as I understand it, it isn't the root of my problem.
I don't have any binding in the Z axis. I'm using the spring arm that came with the mill as the counterbalance- I understand that it doesn't provide near 100%, but it is something.
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- BigJohnT
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30 Dec 2011 17:31 #16122
by BigJohnT
Replied by BigJohnT on topic Re:Losing Z steps
When you ran the test was your spindle on? The spindle motor might be causing a problem with the stepper drive boards... bad ground or something like that...
John
John
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- hazmat
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30 Dec 2011 22:08 #16139
by hazmat
Replied by hazmat on topic Re:Losing Z steps
When I first tried, the spindle was off, but I tried it with the spindle on (at about 75% of max speed, the speed I was running when trying to engrave) and the results were the same- after the test, the tool was exactly 0.5" above the table. I think I will try this while only moving a very small amount and see if this reproduces losing the z steps.
I'm quite open to other experiments/suggestions.
FYI: I have not adjusted the trim on the geckodrive- it is as it came from the factory.
I'm quite open to other experiments/suggestions.
FYI: I have not adjusted the trim on the geckodrive- it is as it came from the factory.
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- Rick G
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31 Dec 2011 11:45 #16151
by Rick G
Replied by Rick G on topic Re:Losing Z steps
You could try running the test again but with moving the x and y axis at the same time, perhaps three axis moving at once is pulling the power supply amps down.
Are you sure you are not trying to lower the z axis into the work too fast when running your program? Try lowering the z axis speed even lower.
Rick G
Are you sure you are not trying to lower the z axis into the work too fast when running your program? Try lowering the z axis speed even lower.
Rick G
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