Zero tool at tool change
- yoshimitsuspeed
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16 Sep 2015 05:46 #62631
by yoshimitsuspeed
Zero tool at tool change was created by yoshimitsuspeed
So I have been using Fusion360 for my CAM. It uses basically a dumbed down but growing version of HSMworks.
My machine is a small home built machine using an ER20 collet so I need to rezero the machine for each tool change. Simple enough, in CAM I just create a setup for each tool.
If it helps, you can see how this all works in F360 here. Setup starts on page 11.
myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/p...761eaa673e8e12d8f6b4
Now this worked quite well until they finally implemented patterning. Their implementation really frustrated me because a pattern is a child of a setup so for me I would have to create a pattern for each setup.
So for example for me drilling with a 3mm drill bit would be a setup, then all holes with a 4mm bit would be another setup, facing with a face mill would be another setup and pocketing would be another setup.
I am of the opinion that a pattern should be a parent feature or separate feature that can be applied to any setup.
At that point I was told that I am using the CAM wrong and that all operations for a given orientation should be under one setup. I told them that didn't work for me because I had to zero my tools each tool change. They then made it sound like that should be easy to do during a tool change. As far as I can tell this is not possible in Linuxcnc. Is there a way to do this?
My machine is a small home built machine using an ER20 collet so I need to rezero the machine for each tool change. Simple enough, in CAM I just create a setup for each tool.
If it helps, you can see how this all works in F360 here. Setup starts on page 11.
myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/p...761eaa673e8e12d8f6b4
Now this worked quite well until they finally implemented patterning. Their implementation really frustrated me because a pattern is a child of a setup so for me I would have to create a pattern for each setup.
So for example for me drilling with a 3mm drill bit would be a setup, then all holes with a 4mm bit would be another setup, facing with a face mill would be another setup and pocketing would be another setup.
I am of the opinion that a pattern should be a parent feature or separate feature that can be applied to any setup.
At that point I was told that I am using the CAM wrong and that all operations for a given orientation should be under one setup. I told them that didn't work for me because I had to zero my tools each tool change. They then made it sound like that should be easy to do during a tool change. As far as I can tell this is not possible in Linuxcnc. Is there a way to do this?
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16 Sep 2015 18:15 #62639
by andypugh
There are hardware and software solutions to this.
Some ER collet holders have a thread in the back for an end-stop so that tools always go in to the same depth.
Some end mills have a stop ring on them so that they always go in to the same depth.
I thought that solid ER collets existed, with a side-lock screw, so that you could leave the "collet" on the tool but I don't seem to be able to find any now.
If you have a lathe it would be easy to make some.
There are sofware solutions. The most elegant relies on a tool touch-off fixture, where part of the tool-change process is automatic tool length probe.
You can have a look at this in one of the simulator configurations. In the config chooser look at sim/axis/remap/manual-toolchangewith-tol-length-switch
Replied by andypugh on topic Zero tool at tool change
My machine is a small home built machine using an ER20 collet
...
I told them that didn't work for me because I had to zero my tools each tool change. They then made it sound like that should be easy to do during a tool change. As far as I can tell this is not possible in Linuxcnc. Is there a way to do this?
There are hardware and software solutions to this.
Some ER collet holders have a thread in the back for an end-stop so that tools always go in to the same depth.
Some end mills have a stop ring on them so that they always go in to the same depth.
I thought that solid ER collets existed, with a side-lock screw, so that you could leave the "collet" on the tool but I don't seem to be able to find any now.
If you have a lathe it would be easy to make some.
There are sofware solutions. The most elegant relies on a tool touch-off fixture, where part of the tool-change process is automatic tool length probe.
You can have a look at this in one of the simulator configurations. In the config chooser look at sim/axis/remap/manual-toolchangewith-tol-length-switch
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- yoshimitsuspeed
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17 Sep 2015 02:44 #62650
by yoshimitsuspeed
Replied by yoshimitsuspeed on topic Zero tool at tool change
Thanks for the input. My collet doesn't have anything mechanical to set the height.
Some of my cutters and drill bits are also shorter than the length of the collet.
Integrating a step or other stop into the tool is an interesting idea but the thought of doing that on all my tooling especially things like very small drill bits seems less than ideal.
The software solutions you mention still leave the issue and question of how to do it during a tool change.
Whether I zero off a touch off fixture, the part, the machine, the vice or whatever else I would still need control of the machine to do so yet when time for a toolchange comes in Linuxcnc it disables the machine, asks you to insert the next tool and then click okay. As soon as you do then it takes control of the machine again.
This brings me back to my question of whether there is a way to zero the machine during the toolchange?
I would really love to do an automated touch off plate. If you could go into more detail on how to set that up in linuxcnc I would be stoked.
Even if for now I could get control of the machine and use a similar plate to manually zero that would be helpful.
Some of my cutters and drill bits are also shorter than the length of the collet.
Integrating a step or other stop into the tool is an interesting idea but the thought of doing that on all my tooling especially things like very small drill bits seems less than ideal.
The software solutions you mention still leave the issue and question of how to do it during a tool change.
Whether I zero off a touch off fixture, the part, the machine, the vice or whatever else I would still need control of the machine to do so yet when time for a toolchange comes in Linuxcnc it disables the machine, asks you to insert the next tool and then click okay. As soon as you do then it takes control of the machine again.
This brings me back to my question of whether there is a way to zero the machine during the toolchange?
I would really love to do an automated touch off plate. If you could go into more detail on how to set that up in linuxcnc I would be stoked.
Even if for now I could get control of the machine and use a similar plate to manually zero that would be helpful.
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17 Sep 2015 03:01 #62651
by andypugh
It's actually hard to do it manually, because of the way that LinuxCNC changes between modes.
Automatic tool length setting is actually easier, because the process is driven by G-code throughout.
Take a look at that sim config. (if you run it, it will be copied to your configs directory).
The "magic" is a G-code subroutine, a Python file and a couple of INI entries.
Full (too full, probably) details here:
www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/remap/remap.html
Replied by andypugh on topic Zero tool at tool change
I would really love to do an automated touch off plate. If you could go into more detail on how to set that up in linuxcnc I would be stoked.
Even if for now I could get control of the machine and use a similar plate to manually zero that would be helpful.
It's actually hard to do it manually, because of the way that LinuxCNC changes between modes.
Automatic tool length setting is actually easier, because the process is driven by G-code throughout.
Take a look at that sim config. (if you run it, it will be copied to your configs directory).
The "magic" is a G-code subroutine, a Python file and a couple of INI entries.
Full (too full, probably) details here:
www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/remap/remap.html
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- yoshimitsuspeed
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17 Sep 2015 07:37 #62670
by yoshimitsuspeed
Replied by yoshimitsuspeed on topic Zero tool at tool change
I skimmed over it quickly. Will look at the config next time I am out at my machine.
In the meantime what is the best hardware setup?
Would I need to make some sort of spring plate or something with a little give to it so the cutter didn't slam into a solid surface?
Would I use something like an estop switch? Or insultate the plate so touching the tool completes the circuit?
In the meantime what is the best hardware setup?
Would I need to make some sort of spring plate or something with a little give to it so the cutter didn't slam into a solid surface?
Would I use something like an estop switch? Or insultate the plate so touching the tool completes the circuit?
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17 Sep 2015 16:05 #62676
by andypugh
it needs to have some give. It will have a lot in common with a probe.
You can just buy them: www.ebay.com/itm/161521766253 as a random example.
Replied by andypugh on topic Zero tool at tool change
In the meantime what is the best hardware setup?
Would I need to make some sort of spring plate or something with a little give to it so the cutter didn't slam into a solid surface?
it needs to have some give. It will have a lot in common with a probe.
You can just buy them: www.ebay.com/itm/161521766253 as a random example.
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18 Sep 2015 13:04 #62737
by yoshimitsuspeed
Replied by yoshimitsuspeed on topic Zero tool at tool change
Wow thanks. I didn't even think to look for these. i figured it would be more of a high end item.
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