Virgin in need of guidance, 5 axis retro fit in the deep end

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11 Aug 2021 00:32 - 09 Jan 2022 12:55 #217451 by MaccaRnD
Hello all,
    Iam new to the world of Linux it’s my first time take it easy on me.
Iam looking for assistance and guidance on a machine retro fit I am undertaking. I’m a Linux Cnc virgin, I’ve had a lot of people recommend running my machine from Linux Cnc and that this forum was vary helpful so ?.
I have a little machining experience. I’m only playing as a Hobbyist on the side at the moment.
I’ve currently have a broken mill of my own that I am looking to retro fit with a new age controller. It’s a somewhat of a clone of a Bemato, I’d like to be able to do ridged tapping and indexing of the spindle for things like tool changing so I would like servo control as I don’t believe VFDs can do this(inexperienced I could be wrong). . Plan to repaint and dress up the machines appearance.

Linux at first glance looks very complicated and not just easy machine setup wizards, the coding side anyway, I’ve been watching a lot of Lunix videos and the skins look good and simple to understand the background (code) looks daunting

1. lunux looks like it is capable of running 5 axis full simultaneous machining, and have the ability to run a spindle with Servo capabilities am I correct?
2. Are things like tool changers simple to set up through Linux with a wizard?
I have an umbrella tool changer
3. Subjective question I know but what’s the best board etc to go with if I’m starting from scratch in the Linux world, Would I need multiple parallel ports (2) on my PC to have enough inputs and outputs (I currently don’t have a computer for my mill so need to purchase something suitable). Would also need Wifi ability to get Cam files from my Cad/cam PC.
is there better ways to run a board than parallel ports. 
what sort of minimum requirements would I need to a suitable PC

Sorry for probably stupid questions. And help / links and criticism would be great.
Regards Macca

 
 
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Last edit: 09 Jan 2022 12:55 by MaccaRnD.

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11 Aug 2021 00:45 #217452 by andypugh

1. lunux looks like it is capable of running 5 axis full simultaneous machining, and have the ability to run a spindle with Servo capabilities am I correct?


Yes. In fact LinuxCNC can run 9-axis simultaneous machining, and can run with complex kinematics too.

2. Are things like tool changers simple to set up through Linux with a wizard?


No. Tool changers are all different and a Wizard to handle them all would be insamely difficult to write.

But LinuxCNC can handle lots of different types of toolchanger, but I would never claim that it was simple to set them up.

I have 16 tool Geneva wheel, air cylinder, limit switches and proxy switches for the wheel home and cam rotation, CW and CCW motor.

The "carousel" HAL component should do most of the work, then.

is there better ways to run a board than parallel ports.

Oh, yes, absolutely. I wouldn't dream of trying to run that machine from the parport.
wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
Though most people tend ti use either Pico or Mesa. Both are supported by the manufacturers on this forum.

what sort of minimum requirements would I need to a suitable PC

Nothing very fancy. Second-hand office PCs are a popular choice.

4. In something like 5 axis does linux allow fast 5 axis machine work and big/huge G code files or is it like drip feeding an old machine, rather slow?

LinuxCNC can handle huge files, and can run at a decent pace.

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11 Aug 2021 02:16 - 09 Jan 2022 12:57 #217461 by MaccaRnD
Thankyou andypugh, I’ll check out the link for hardware, and better ways of running it,
if I don’t need a big pc that’s good, when you say standard office PC, is something like that capable of “running” big G code files fast or is it a case where a bigger faster computer for this would help, 
Last edit: 09 Jan 2022 12:57 by MaccaRnD.

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11 Aug 2021 12:38 - 11 Aug 2021 12:39 #217535 by Roiki
Masso doesn't support simultaneous 5 axis. Also linuxcnc support for simultaneous 5 axis is iffy at best. It's more of a beta feature that's quite a bit of hassle to set up and not very feature rich. Nothing like a haas or heidenhain.

If you want to get a 5 axis running properly and are not interested in tinkering too much, centroid is probably the cheapest 5 axis control you can find. It's still a chunk of cash though.

There are vfds that can use encoders to run in closed loop mode for rigid tapping. Look into those if you want that feature.
Last edit: 11 Aug 2021 12:39 by Roiki.

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12 Aug 2021 05:07 - 09 Jan 2022 12:59 #217589 by MaccaRnD
Masso claims there’s will do 5 axis Sim but I don’t have experience to say how well it works. They also don’t do rigid tapping which is a must, and can’t seem to be able to orient a spindle.
I’ll have a bit more of a look at centroid.
They seem rather expensive when Lyly look at anything more than basic 3 axis, and every little add on or expansion or widget is close to 1k.
I’m struggling to find any VFD that can use an encoder for closed loop, 
Last edit: 09 Jan 2022 12:59 by MaccaRnD.

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12 Aug 2021 12:50 #217606 by Roiki
Masso can do 5 axis positional. Not simultaneous. It has no kinematics for 5 axis whatsoever. Linuxcnc can do that too easily. Masso is pretty great and straightforward for smaller 4 axis stuff. I like the simplisity. It just lacks encoder feedback.

Centroid is expensive for a reason, it's a full professional control as good as fanuc or heidenhain. And it costs under half of what a heidenhain 650 would.

I'd say your best bet is to drop the 5 axis stuff for now, there's a reason most people aren't doing it and it's because it's very hard. Get it working with 3 axis first and then add 4th.

Delta c2000+ series is a very good series of vfds with position control. As an example.

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12 Aug 2021 13:00 #217607 by tommylight
There is also the issue of 5 axis CAM, the cost of it is astronomical.
There are some free options, but never used them so no idea how good or bad they are.

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13 Aug 2021 06:27 #217661 by MaccaRnD
Thanks I’ll check out that Delta VFD,
Yeah plan is to get it working with 3 then add 4/5th but I don’t want to have to redo everything or swap out major components to add the 4/5th trying to get it right the first time.

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13 Aug 2021 06:28 - 09 Jan 2022 13:01 #217662 by MaccaRnD
I already have headaches from cam 
Last edit: 09 Jan 2022 13:01 by MaccaRnD.
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13 Aug 2021 11:21 #217674 by Roiki
If all you want is simplicity and good operation that just works, go with centroid. Linuxcnc is none of those things. It's very tinkery by nature.

Adding 4th to linuxcnc is dead easy though since it doesn't require anything extra. Works very well. Even doing 5 axis positional works. The issues come with simultaneous as they require kinematics calculations and accurate kinematics modeling. Which requires automatic calibration routines. You also need dynamic works offsets. None of that is supported out of the box and requires tinkering and experimentation to get working.

If you're up for tinkering and making it work, it can be a fun project. But if you just want a system that works, the 5~k for 5 axis centroid will save you a lot of time and headaches.

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