Buttons on controlpanel vs. MPG vs. on-screen controls?

Hi,

I've started designing the controlpanel for my build  and i immediately ran into an issue that i think all others also must have in some way. I was hoping to draw inspiration from what others have done or how "professionals do i". My plan was to have the following controls as an physical interface on the controlpanel:
- Overrides: Feed override / spindle override (0% - 120%)
- Jogging: Jog wheel / axis select(XYZAC + spindle) / Multiplier select (x1, X10, x100)
- EStop / reset
- Run / Hold buttons

First issue: I'm using a touch-screen on my panel and i planned using all other functions as on-screen buttons(coolant, etc)... not sure if i'm going to regret this or not? I see that some has a "random" button matrix they later can assign functions to. Do people actually end up using these? Or is it easier to just use the touch screen? It seems like the trend on professional machines is "less buttons", but i'm not sure if this is a good idea?

Second issue: I was planning on using rotary switches for the axis/multiplier select. BUT if i do this, i cannot have the same functionality on-screen or on an MPG. If the physical rotary switch says "X"-axis, then i cannot change that on-screen or on the MPG. The obvious solution to this is to do push-buttons with indication-lights instead of rotary switches. Are there any other ways of doing this that i'm missing? What are "professionals" doing with this issue? What have you guys done?

Third issue: Similar to 2nd issue: I was planning on using simple potentiometers to handle the overrides. But again then it cannot be overriden(or reset) in software or on MPG. Again the only option seems "endless rotary encoders", but i think i'll loose the "feeling" when wanting to go down to 0% and slowly increase since there isn't a "stop" at 0%... So what have others done here?

I don't mind going the extra mile to get a good solution for a problem. I also don't mind paying for getting high quality, so any ideas will be great appreciated...

/Thomas

you can overwrite the gui values via potentiometer and vice versa, the potentiometer value is only taken if the value changes.

For the jog values you can check if you are using the right hal signals, there are several (halui/axisui,...) I think it is possible, but sometimes very complicated

i'm still trying to find the right combination:

www.youtube.com/shorts/jnna9jJnXfs

meister wrote:

i'm still trying to find the right combination:

www.youtube.com/shorts/jnna9jJnXfs

Wauw, that looks so awesome! I agree with the last comment in the video

That would be very cool to incorporate...thanks for the input!

/Thomas

1) using momentary buttons with light indication
2) i use rotary switches, of course with this it will not be back driven from touch screen actions, except if you find motorised rotary switches and make them move.
3) maybe there is rotary encoders with course clicks(few per rotation to give more tactile feedback) and then you need to use LEDs for indicating which scale or axis selected

thomaseg wrote:

Hi,

 The obvious solution to this is to do push-buttons with indication-lights instead of rotary switches. Are there any other ways of doing this that i'm missing? What are "professionals" doing with this issue? What have you guys done?


/Thomas

 

What do you want your MPG to do?  Just incremental jogs? Or an all-in-one thing?

If you just want it to do incremental jogs, there's no conflict.  You select an axis on the MPG, and twiddle the wheel.  Because the jog-incremental signal/pin is different from the jog-continuous signal/pin, you don't have to worry about conflicting command sources.

Have a look in the HAL examples sub-forum and there are a couple of excellent examples of how to set up an MPG - including 4/5 axis.

You can have that, PLUS you can also have continuous-jog buttons (or a joystick) on your main panel.

If you want an all-in-one MPG plus duplicated controls on the operator panel, then a momentary button to select which command source is active would be easy.

As far as how to integrate with on-screen controls via touch or mouse or keyboard... just dont.  Keyboard/mouse jogging is dangerous, and touchscreens provide no tactile feedback that you're on the intended key/button.  You cannot safely jog or control the machine without looking at the screen... and then you're not looking at the machine to see what's going on.  Just my rant, dont mind me.

Thanks for you replies! I've given it more thought and i've been playing around with the idea of having push-buttons instead of rotary switches, i've ended up with something like this:


On the left(closest to the door of the machine) is my cyclestart/feedhold and above them feed/spindle override. Then the jogwheel with push-button axis selection above and multiplier(x1, x10, x100) on the right of the wheel. Then 4x4 utility buttons and finally estop+estop reset...

I'll have to rethink the use of the pendant...and maybe skip it all together...or make it way smarter than i originally thought since i cannot use rotary switches...

The keyboard placement is stupid, but as a "version 1" it will work. I'll add easy access to USB ports, so plugging in an extra keyboard will be easy if i need to marathon type something down the road...

/Thomas

That looks quite nice and useable.

Next move is to make a wish-list of all the functions you want at your fingertips and see if 16 buttons (on the 4x4) is enough to make you happy.

Keep in mind that if you use a 7i73 - which can do all of the controls you modeled above - you can have a 4x8 matrix (or 8x8) in addition to the encoders or pots.  So that's 32 pushbuttons worth of inputs when you start your wish-list.

And the matrix doesn't have to be physically arranged in a grid.  Just electrically.

spumco wrote:

Next move is to make a wish-list of all the functions you want at your fingertips and see if 16 buttons (on the 4x4) is enough to make you happy.

Keep in mind that if you use a 7i73 - which can do all of the controls you modeled above - you can have a 4x8 matrix (or 8x8) in addition to the encoders or pots.  So that's 32 pushbuttons worth of inputs when you start your wish-list.

To be honest, i dont know what i want So i'm just going to wire them up and then i can assign them later on in software...ideas are welcome? What are your most beloved buttons on your machines? 

Unfortunately, i was apparently dropped on the floor as a child, because i thought it was a good idea to do this project using EtherCAT instead of just using MESA boards like all the other sane kids....and EtherCAT all the way...not sure i still think this was a good idea, but hey, here we are... So i have an EhterCAT bus coupler behind the keyboard to wire up all the controls in the panel...that is then connected back to the main IO modules in the control enclosure on the side of the machine, which also hosts all the servodrives with EtherCAT aswell....so all the buttons and their lights are going through a bunch of Beckhoff EL1859 (8x input + 8x outputs)...

/Thomas

No problem at all.  Matrix_kb.comp is flexible.

Assuming the drive or coupler outputs are fast enough, you can use the ins & outs to drive a matrix keyboard of whatever size you want.

linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/man/man9/matrix_kb.9.html

I think you'll want the scan-generation mode.  The default mode is for a 7i73.

My favorite button?  Easy.  It's the Go-Back-In-Time-Before-The Crash button.  No, I won't share my HAL config for that one.