MotionMaster Upgrade

Hi I think my machine is strictly speaking, a router, but its kinda beefy.
photos.app.goo.gl/dXNZCPk8Kuq2EDQT8
I wanted to upgrade it to have a BC swivel head plus a couple of rotaries. This will involve adding a minimum of 4 servos and its unclear to me if I have enough space in existing conduits to work effectively. The main junction box is also way too tightly packed.
The conduits need replacement (cracked, broken and generally worn). I would like to keep the wiring splice free from controller to servo where possible so I need to disconnect the cables somewhere. 
I think most of the connections are correct, but, it is clear that the machine has been tinkered with by someone who probably didn't pay a lot of attention to documentation or detail, so I think its important for me to double check connections.
As of now, I am thinking of:
(a) confirming that the Fagor components work and put them for sale on Ebay.
(b) Remove all wires one at a time, labelling then, and then migrating the entire control box to Linuxcnc, keeping the mounting hardware only.
(c) Adding a second junction box so that I have more space for fingering
 
I do not have 3 phase power at the appropriate voltage, and also, I do not need a 16hp spindle. I need 6hp at most, and was think of downpowering the entire machine to a 220V single phase setup, but I don't have a lot of experience.

The goal is to have a machine that is a full-sized prototyper. I want it to have plenty of capabilities, but lower throughput. I'm doing higher value, highly customized, runs of 20 to 50 per part. Not more. This is not a run day and night auto-loader setup.

Please, would love some comments and general feedback. Happy to add pictures to the album. 
 

Before you make any decisions, you've got to sort out power.

How many amps of 220v single-phase do you have available for the machine?  This will narrow down your options considerably.

Even if you downgrade the VFD, you may not be able to run the existing drives on single-phase. You may not even have enough amps available with a rotary phase converter or Phase Perfect.

If you do have enough amps to run single-phase with no converter, you need to budget for significantly increase conductor sizes to (and maybe inside) the machine.

So...
How many amps do you have available?
If you don't have many amps, can you stomach the cost & hassle of a service upgrade?
How many amps do the drives require, and what voltage?

I think these will help you determine if you're re-using anything or if this is gonna be a full-boogie replacement where everything electrical comes out and gets replaced with new.

Thank you!
-existing stuff
I don't see why I cannot use the existing drives for the existing servos. The intention was not to replace those at all. For the VFD, I very much want a water cooled VFD tho I have been told that it takes up a lot of extra vertical real estate. In the end, I'll be a one person outfit for a while anyway, so maybe I can just say screw you OSHA and just deal with the noise on that 16hp spindle. I will never use the full capacity, so as long as I can start it up, I think I should be alright. I imagine I can do some sort of a ramp up start with the VFD settings. That reminds me to check if it works.

-can I mix drives? the swivel head that I have will comes with yaskawa servos and no drives(or I can add drives). I cannot imagine there being as issue to mixing and matching. And concerns with mixing analog/digital?

**********
-if you still want to replace the drives, you have two choices in general: EtherCAT or Mesa with normal step/dir or analog servos (do not bother to look at steppers and close loop steppers)

I'll have to research this. I do not know if the current servos are closed loop ones. The ones on the X and Y axis are mts30r4-42. They have 3 power leads (2 bigger wires, 1 thinner). I've confirmed that I can get a voltage if i turn the servos by hand. The resistance is above the plate, but still under 2ohms. 4 brushes in good condition. There are 4 other pairs of wires that I found out are A, B, Index and Power. Haven't wrapped my head aroud thinking about them from first principles yet. Would this existing hardware affect any of my choices?

-For the Mesa/new drives, i would look for "position and velocity" mode drives (analog +-10V and step/dir) and also with encoder outputs (all have encoder inputs or absolute encoders, usually serial ones) so the loop can be closed in LinuxCNC with both types of control, makes life easier during use. Given the choice between analog and step/dir, choose step/dir.
>>> I'm going to research this paragraph a little more first.

I was wondering if there are good software or schematics for recreating the wiring. I found the Fagor 8055 manual, but it seems more like how to use it rather than how to fix it.

Thank you!

As of now, I can easily send 60amps at 220 to it.
I was going to trace the power in the unit, but need to get set up. I'm just spending my time around the beast for now trying to understand it and familiarize myself. More than anything else, i'm trying to come up with a system to document what I am doing. Any idea for software, or perhaps, some sort of step by step thought process on replacing, identifying and tidying up wiring?

If you don't have many amps, can you stomach the cost & hassle of a service upgrade? >> Ideally, no, but if I really have to, I don't really have a choice. I'm dug in.

How many amps do the drives require, and what voltage? Please help me here. Is this information that I read off the faceplates (this would be maximum draws) or is this something I read off the drives? I know where the drives are, and can easily pull one out to check.

Also, before I start fingering the components, is there a component in here that can hold a charge despite being dormant for a while? I think this unit has been sleeping for about 12 to 15 months, but I've heard of folks getting a nasty shock from fingering old TVs.

Thank you

You should be able to get the electrical information off the drives without removing them.  Might need a mirror to see the side of the drive.

Make & model number of the drive would be helpful.  Photo of any data/stickers would be helpful.  Photo of data-plate on motors would be helpful.

From the existing photos, the drive(s) appear to be a module-type arrangement.  There is a single AC to DC power stage part, and separate (smaller) control parts for each servo motor (axis motor).  Replacement drives, if you go that route, will most likely be individual drives that each have built-in ac rectification.

That's why your 'drives' look like one big box, and replacement drives you might have seen on the internet or forum posts look like separate boxes.

The reason I mentioned not using the existing drives is that those drives most likely require 3-phase power supplied to them.  You/we will know more once you get a drive model number off them and (hopefully) find a user manual.

Some 3-phase equipment will work when supplied single-phase power, albeit at reduced output.  However, not everything has that capability.

If you have 60 amps of single-phase 230VAC available, that translates to ~36A of 230VAC 3-phase using a Phase Perfect "10hp" phase converter.  Rotary phase converters may be a bit different, but that should give you a ball-park power budget.

If your existing servo drives require - guessing here - 30 amps, that only leaves ~6A for a spindle motor.  So you can see why it's important to know what they require before you can decide to keep them or not.

For wiring/electrical software, I like TinyCAD.  But I'm not a pro, and other people have other software they prefer.  Do a search on the forum - I think there was a discussion last year about schematic-building software.

EDIT
I was wrong, disregard my ramblings about the drives.

Still need to figure out power budget, but based on the size of that rectifier capacitor I don't think those are really high-amp drives.

tommylight wrote:

Brushes, that makes the motors Brushed DC, and from what i recall the drives for those are hard to find, so it does pay off to check if the existing ones are ok.

Ah, I think you're right. The big box with the Fagor computer in the top half, I can see what appears to be an analog brushed-dc multi-axis servo amplifier + psu in the bottom half of the box. With two fans attached.

@tommylight & NWE.... you two have better eyes than I do.

I think you two are right, and the bottom center thing is the rectifier and four drives.  Bundle of red & black wires prolly go out the the motors.

I'm going to make a list of components grouped by:
Power (From source to when it get's used)
Inputs (Not much here, keyboard and the handheld)
Motion (From the controller to drives to servos, incl encoders)
Feedback(All other sensors)
Spindle(VFD and everything downstream of it)
Other shit (ATC, grease, beer bottle opener etc)

Lot's of great feedback here. I'll try to understand everything said before committing to a plan. I've been labelling wires. Also decided to simply move to fuse out from the main junction box into its own separate box and just add another half-in conduit just for carrying power to the main box. This frees up all the room I need in the main junction box to work. I think I will be adding an additional 1in conduit to carry the extra conductors needed for the swivel head and rotaries.