Do NOT update working machines!!!
- tommylight
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01 Jul 2026 16:27 #347443
by tommylight
Do NOT update working machines!!! was created by tommylight
I feel this is adequate but not sure if this is the right place, feel free to correct me.
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As i read almost everything here, i keep noticing the same issue happening over and over, namely where users of LinuxCNC update/upgrade version for no particular reason and end up with broken machines.
This stems from the windows "update mentality" being forced upon us for the last 20 odd years... never mind.
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[bold]In short, never update/upgrade a working machine, unless you explicitly need new features.[/bold]
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It is Linux, and no matter how much money microsoft invests on youtubers to convince you that Linux is not secure, IT absolutely IS secure, the whole world uses Linux, all WORLD servers are running Linux (even microsoft's servers run Linux since 2000 with Red Hat), are on public IP so the whole world has access to them, yet very rarely anything happens to them.
STOP TYPING!
Even when something happens, almost always it is some running service/software that failed/got hacked, not LINUX, or some old server that was last updated 15 years ago.
And for those watching youtube about this, notice they never ever mention the comparison is being done for the web browser, NOT for the operating system.
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As i read almost everything here, i keep noticing the same issue happening over and over, namely where users of LinuxCNC update/upgrade version for no particular reason and end up with broken machines.
This stems from the windows "update mentality" being forced upon us for the last 20 odd years... never mind.
-
[bold]In short, never update/upgrade a working machine, unless you explicitly need new features.[/bold]
-
It is Linux, and no matter how much money microsoft invests on youtubers to convince you that Linux is not secure, IT absolutely IS secure, the whole world uses Linux, all WORLD servers are running Linux (even microsoft's servers run Linux since 2000 with Red Hat), are on public IP so the whole world has access to them, yet very rarely anything happens to them.
STOP TYPING!
Even when something happens, almost always it is some running service/software that failed/got hacked, not LINUX, or some old server that was last updated 15 years ago.
And for those watching youtube about this, notice they never ever mention the comparison is being done for the web browser, NOT for the operating system.
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- timo
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03 Jul 2026 04:31 - 03 Jul 2026 04:32 #347478
by timo
Replied by timo on topic Do NOT update working machines!!!
What do you mean with secure? There is a PC and it runs linux. The IT risk with my machine is a) lightning strike b) harddrive failure.
a) fixed by backup machine b) fixed with spare harddrive. ... Done!
If someone steals the PC it is also gone ...
p.s. Never change a running system, never run a changing system!
a) fixed by backup machine b) fixed with spare harddrive. ... Done!
If someone steals the PC it is also gone ...
p.s. Never change a running system, never run a changing system!
Last edit: 03 Jul 2026 04:32 by timo.
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- snowgoer540
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03 Jul 2026 20:22 #347490
by snowgoer540
Replied by snowgoer540 on topic Do NOT update working machines!!!
On the other hand ... I've gotten tons of invaluable feedback from those brave/patient enough to adopt the latest version and provide bug feedback ... much of it coming from people running a business with said machine (some of the best feedback is from folks who actually use it constantly).
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03 Jul 2026 20:41 #347494
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Do NOT update working machines!!!
Snowwy, i am sure i have not formulated that very nicely, to much that makes me loose my marbles there, but mostly the "fear everything" mentality sweeping the world.
And i am for sure the most paranoid one here, yet i have to ask not to update as it is an ongoing hassle for many users.
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I would really appreciate if someone else would write something about this, and i will gladly delete this.
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People with a single machine that their business relies on, should really never update/upgrade, unless they want to risk it, others are welcomed to and even encouraged to as it provides invaluable feedback.
But most important, explain they do not have to and it is not a must, as they have been conditioned to from microshaft and it's useless code and non existing code auditing.
And i am for sure the most paranoid one here, yet i have to ask not to update as it is an ongoing hassle for many users.
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I would really appreciate if someone else would write something about this, and i will gladly delete this.
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People with a single machine that their business relies on, should really never update/upgrade, unless they want to risk it, others are welcomed to and even encouraged to as it provides invaluable feedback.
But most important, explain they do not have to and it is not a must, as they have been conditioned to from microshaft and it's useless code and non existing code auditing.
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04 Jul 2026 04:26 #347510
by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic Do NOT update working machines!!!
There are so many things that force a system upgrade, Components fail, new drivers needed and so on.
Without upgrades you would miss out on so many amazing improvements to LinuxCNC. QTplasmac and QTdragon are cases in point and running master branch with them is almost mandatory. What about 9 axis look ahead or S-curve jerk limited trajectory planning?
You just need a plan and a fall back position, I generally create a new config in Mesaconf or stepconf with very rough settings. Then once motion is confirmed, cut and paste all of my original ini and hal settings accross. That gets me running. Then its just a matter of adding all the new nice to have features. 3D probing, spindle torque display and so on. It only takes an hour or so.
Sorry but I like to stay pretty current. It makes support much easier.
Did I tell you I get a bit annoyed when people say I have this working machine on 2.5 and it broke when I upgraded to 2.9? The truth of the matter, it broke several times all at once. Have you any idea how old 2.5 is? I've been using LinuxCNC for over 10 years. 2.7 was where I started but 2.8 came out before I finished my first config, so I upgraded straight away because It had features I wanted. I'd venture to say you will have less downtime if you stay current as you only make small steps at a time. upgrading 4 versions? you might as well adopt Mach 3!
Without upgrades you would miss out on so many amazing improvements to LinuxCNC. QTplasmac and QTdragon are cases in point and running master branch with them is almost mandatory. What about 9 axis look ahead or S-curve jerk limited trajectory planning?
You just need a plan and a fall back position, I generally create a new config in Mesaconf or stepconf with very rough settings. Then once motion is confirmed, cut and paste all of my original ini and hal settings accross. That gets me running. Then its just a matter of adding all the new nice to have features. 3D probing, spindle torque display and so on. It only takes an hour or so.
Sorry but I like to stay pretty current. It makes support much easier.
Did I tell you I get a bit annoyed when people say I have this working machine on 2.5 and it broke when I upgraded to 2.9? The truth of the matter, it broke several times all at once. Have you any idea how old 2.5 is? I've been using LinuxCNC for over 10 years. 2.7 was where I started but 2.8 came out before I finished my first config, so I upgraded straight away because It had features I wanted. I'd venture to say you will have less downtime if you stay current as you only make small steps at a time. upgrading 4 versions? you might as well adopt Mach 3!
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- timo
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07 Jul 2026 05:00 #347572
by timo
Replied by timo on topic Do NOT update working machines!!!
When I updated I just started with a "fresh" hard drive. Then i do not have to deal with anything other than swapping SATA connection to get back from "experiment" to working.
My biggest problem is to keep some proper documentation (always bites me).
Trying to at least put a lot of comments into my hal and ini files.
My biggest problem is to keep some proper documentation (always bites me).
Trying to at least put a lot of comments into my hal and ini files.
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- rhscdn
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07 Jul 2026 14:29 #347577
by rhscdn
Replied by rhscdn on topic Do NOT update working machines!!!
I used to work in an environment that required high reliability. Hot-swap spares were the norm and that includes software. If you were updating software, it was done on a second (or sometimes even third) device to ensure that you always had 1 working production device and often a working spare as well. This philosophy is required in some industries, but many have moved away from it due to the cost. For a long time, downtime was forbidden. Now consultants or MBAs model the cost of downtime and can often justify it as critical savings in the short term. My local hospital recently rolled out a software update that brought down all their OR suites for over a week due to a driver issue.
I've been using Debian (and offshoots) for over 20 years and *nix before that. Original sysadmins were taught the importance of backups before updates as the OS itself doesn't provide a mechanism to roll back. There is an opportunity to provide better instructions to users on how to migrate a system safely, but it is a lot of work and there is always some risk.
I have linuxcnc running in a NixOS VM for simulations and might move my main controller to this one day.
I've been using Debian (and offshoots) for over 20 years and *nix before that. Original sysadmins were taught the importance of backups before updates as the OS itself doesn't provide a mechanism to roll back. There is an opportunity to provide better instructions to users on how to migrate a system safely, but it is a lot of work and there is always some risk.
I have linuxcnc running in a NixOS VM for simulations and might move my main controller to this one day.
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- tuxcnc
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08 Jul 2026 15:28 #347596
by tuxcnc
Replied by tuxcnc on topic Do NOT update working machines!!!
I agree there is potentialy risk in upgrade an working machine.
I like have newest system with newest abilities, so I upgrade/install system very often.
Sometimes there is no problems, sometimes system or Linuxcnc became useless...
My last bad experience is MESA "error finishing read" error after upgrade kernel (some versions of 6.12 kernel works well, some not).
The best solution is full backup and two or few disks with many partitions.
The Debian 13 with LinuxCNC installed only for control the machine (xfce4, no CAD/CAM etc.) fits in 8 GB disk space.
It is only a few minutes for copy whole of that partition with dd...
In other side, I know the man who has above twenty (!!!) commercial (!!!) installations of Wheezy on very old commputers with LPT ports.
If you don't know what it means, I explain : 32bit systems with RTAI kernel (no realtime ethernet) with hardware in end of their life...
Any updates of this museum are imposible, and any old configs will not work with modern LinuxCNC...
I like have newest system with newest abilities, so I upgrade/install system very often.
Sometimes there is no problems, sometimes system or Linuxcnc became useless...
My last bad experience is MESA "error finishing read" error after upgrade kernel (some versions of 6.12 kernel works well, some not).
The best solution is full backup and two or few disks with many partitions.
The Debian 13 with LinuxCNC installed only for control the machine (xfce4, no CAD/CAM etc.) fits in 8 GB disk space.
It is only a few minutes for copy whole of that partition with dd...
In other side, I know the man who has above twenty (!!!) commercial (!!!) installations of Wheezy on very old commputers with LPT ports.
If you don't know what it means, I explain : 32bit systems with RTAI kernel (no realtime ethernet) with hardware in end of their life...
Any updates of this museum are imposible, and any old configs will not work with modern LinuxCNC...
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- tommylight
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08 Jul 2026 15:50 #347597
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Do NOT update working machines!!!
Anyone?I would really appreciate if someone else would write something about this, and i will gladly delete this.
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- Mikel
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09 Jul 2026 00:24 - 09 Jul 2026 00:29 #347614
by Mikel
Replied by Mikel on topic Do NOT update working machines!!!
For me it really simple. I rely on my machines for my livelihood. Once I had it working satisfactorily, there was no need for any updates. These controls function exactly the same as the original controls, an update isn't going to change that.
Last edit: 09 Jul 2026 00:29 by Mikel.
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