- Configuring LinuxCNC
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- How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
- vkhargwanshi
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29 Sep 2022 08:00 #252997
by vkhargwanshi
I am working with Mesa board with 3 stepper motor. I am trying to reduce the jitter and so want to understand if there is direct relationship between jitter and the speed of stepper motors especially when 3 motors are connected.
As I understand when we are not using parallel port, then base thread doesn't come into picture and so only servo thread jitter needs to be seen.
If so, then would like to understand how will I know what max steps can we have for stepper motor have per sec running based on jitter? Is there any direct calculation exists? I am sure it will differ when 3 motors are connected and when 1 motor is connected..
Please help understanding these calculations
As I understand when we are not using parallel port, then base thread doesn't come into picture and so only servo thread jitter needs to be seen.
If so, then would like to understand how will I know what max steps can we have for stepper motor have per sec running based on jitter? Is there any direct calculation exists? I am sure it will differ when 3 motors are connected and when 1 motor is connected..
Please help understanding these calculations
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- tommylight
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29 Sep 2022 09:15 #253005
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
Mesa boards will not limit the step rate, they can be pushed to do 4 or 5 MHz rates, 1 MHZ is normal for them, and it does not matter how many drives/motors.
Drives will be more of a limiting factor when used with Mesa as they might not work with such short timings.
Most drives, cheaper ones, will not work with timings under 5000ns for step time and space, some will work with 200ns but those cost a lot.
Not an arduino, so no arduino limits with the number of stepgens.
Also, Linuxcnc uses PID loops for stepgens with Mesa boards, so that reduces even further the influence of jitter on step generation.
Drives will be more of a limiting factor when used with Mesa as they might not work with such short timings.
Most drives, cheaper ones, will not work with timings under 5000ns for step time and space, some will work with 200ns but those cost a lot.
Not an arduino, so no arduino limits with the number of stepgens.
Also, Linuxcnc uses PID loops for stepgens with Mesa boards, so that reduces even further the influence of jitter on step generation.
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29 Sep 2022 10:28 #253016
by arvidb
Replied by arvidb on topic How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
No, there is no relation between host jitter (or number of steppers) and step rates when you are using Mesa hardware. Therefore also no such calculations.I am working with Mesa board with 3 stepper motor. I am trying to reduce the jitter and so want to understand if there is direct relationship between jitter and the speed of stepper motors especially when 3 motors are connected.
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- vkhargwanshi
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30 Sep 2022 06:12 #253074
by vkhargwanshi
Replied by vkhargwanshi on topic How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
Thank you for the reply.. Ok so how should I decide upto what extend I have to optimize jitter to ensure smooth working of my 3 axis machine..
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30 Sep 2022 09:15 #253081
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
Just till it does not bite, the watchdog that is.
Mesa will work with quite bad jitter, i have some laptops for testing with very bad latency and some do drop the link sometimes but still work ok for testing.
Some work for days without ever droping the link, one through a USB to LAN adapter.
To put it simply, install LinuxCNC, wire the Mesa card, make a simple config, start LinuxCNC and leave it running, watch youtube, copy stuff around, load some other gcode, etc and see if it drops the link.
If not, use it.
It is as simple as that.
LinuxCNC is very good at letting you know when something is wrong.
Mesa will work with quite bad jitter, i have some laptops for testing with very bad latency and some do drop the link sometimes but still work ok for testing.
Some work for days without ever droping the link, one through a USB to LAN adapter.
To put it simply, install LinuxCNC, wire the Mesa card, make a simple config, start LinuxCNC and leave it running, watch youtube, copy stuff around, load some other gcode, etc and see if it drops the link.
If not, use it.
It is as simple as that.
LinuxCNC is very good at letting you know when something is wrong.
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- vkhargwanshi
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30 Sep 2022 11:31 #253087
by vkhargwanshi
Replied by vkhargwanshi on topic How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
Thank you tommylight.
I am doing some trial and errors, I am using Mesa 7i96s. I observed with one motor if I keep the speed as 5000mm/min with 200 microsec jitter, 32 micro stepping and 200 steps, I keep getting errors from LinuxCNC within mins, but when make it 2000mm/min, don't get any error, even when running for an hr...
So you mean to say, I need to have such trial and errors to understand what will be the best speed I need and so keep lowering the jitter by removing services.. Right?
I am doing some trial and errors, I am using Mesa 7i96s. I observed with one motor if I keep the speed as 5000mm/min with 200 microsec jitter, 32 micro stepping and 200 steps, I keep getting errors from LinuxCNC within mins, but when make it 2000mm/min, don't get any error, even when running for an hr...
So you mean to say, I need to have such trial and errors to understand what will be the best speed I need and so keep lowering the jitter by removing services.. Right?
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30 Sep 2022 14:01 #253101
by arvidb
Replied by arvidb on topic How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
What's the exact error message? (Run linuxcnc from the terminal and copy and paste the error message(s) here.)
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30 Sep 2022 17:25 #253113
by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
Large jitter amounts can cause following errors.
These following errors are velocity dependent.
This can typically be eliminated by adjusting the DPLL
timing.
Also if you get Ethernet timeouts you will get following
errors so depending on you host hardware, you may need to
increase the servo thread period.
There is a workaround for this also if you cannot completely eliminate
Ethernet timeouts
To check timing, run LinuxCNC for a while and then run
this command in a terminal:
halcmd show param *.tmax
These times are in CPU clocks (on x86 hosts)
These following errors are velocity dependent.
This can typically be eliminated by adjusting the DPLL
timing.
Also if you get Ethernet timeouts you will get following
errors so depending on you host hardware, you may need to
increase the servo thread period.
There is a workaround for this also if you cannot completely eliminate
Ethernet timeouts
To check timing, run LinuxCNC for a while and then run
this command in a terminal:
halcmd show param *.tmax
These times are in CPU clocks (on x86 hosts)
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- vkhargwanshi
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02 Oct 2022 06:01 #253217
by vkhargwanshi
Replied by vkhargwanshi on topic How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
Thanks PCW. I will try these.. By the way I am using Raspberry pi.. so hopefully will get something better....
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02 Oct 2022 06:06 #253218
by vkhargwanshi
Replied by vkhargwanshi on topic How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
I am getting following 2 errors
1) Unexpected realtime delay on task 0 with period 2000000
2) hm2/hm2_7i96s.0:stepgen.00.maxval is too big for current step timings and position-scale. clipping to max possible.
1) Unexpected realtime delay on task 0 with period 2000000
2) hm2/hm2_7i96s.0:stepgen.00.maxval is too big for current step timings and position-scale. clipping to max possible.
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- Configuring LinuxCNC
- Basic Configuration
- How jitter affects the no of steps or speed of the stepper motor
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