Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
30 Apr 2020 19:18 #166242
by ajklotz
Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers? was created by ajklotz
Hello all
I'm a wordy guy, so I'll TRY to keep this short. New to Linux, some experience with using EMC2 but first time trying to set it up on a new install.
Background:
Error Report:
TL;DR - Script error when trying to use the auto-updater for the config files:
Debug file information:
Can not find -sec EMC -var VERSION -num 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/bin/update_ini", line 221, in <module>
features = int(ini.find('RS274NGC', 'FEATURES'))
TypeError: int() argument must be a string or a number, not 'NoneType'
It may not be appropriate to put this in here too, but it's all for installing this, so hopefully this is fine.
Our goal for Max Jitter was previously 7500/7500, but on the new software I'm seeing 100,000+/400,000+. Is this because the software is taking resources and our hardware can't keep up? Is 1.8GHZ Intel Atom D2500 and 4GB ram not enough? Is this because I'm now on a PREEMPT kernel while we were using RTAI before? Do I just not have settings correct? Should I be checking for background processes I don't need running? Other tips/tricks/thoughts on this?
Let me know if there are any other details I'm missing. Thank you for any info you can provide!
I'm a wordy guy, so I'll TRY to keep this short. New to Linux, some experience with using EMC2 but first time trying to set it up on a new install.
Background:
Warning: Spoiler!
My company has been using EMC2 2.4.6 on Ubuntu 10.04LTS for years and I've been tasked with getting our software updated. Learning the whole way, I've gone through trying to upgrade from 10.04 to anything else, but that didn't work since it's so old. Installed Ubuntu 18.(.04?) fresh, but that ran super slow. Switched the desktop to XFCE, which ran way smoother. Then when I went to install LinuxCNC, I found out about the specialty kernels and pre-built installation ISOs. Installed the 2.7.14 Debian Wheezy, but was running into a bunch of issues getting things set-up. Combination of it being old and my learning thus far being on Ubuntu. Hit the forums here and found the Mint 19.2 with LinuxCNC installation. I realize this has apparently kind of been pulled, but based on my previous experience, I don't know if I can go back to Debian. It is installed and running okay.
Ideally, we would like to use our previous config files since the machines have all been dialed in already, which seems like it would be okay with the Auto-updater. The issues I'm running into is that it's not working. It looks like a scripting issue, but I can't tell enough with my limited coding knowledge. Assuming it works for anyone else, this seems like a weird error. I saw the post on the forum here about upgrading config files, but those instructions don't seem to fit my situation either.
Does anyone have any suggestions or fixes? Or a more appropriate way to update the files manually if I have to?
Ideally, we would like to use our previous config files since the machines have all been dialed in already, which seems like it would be okay with the Auto-updater. The issues I'm running into is that it's not working. It looks like a scripting issue, but I can't tell enough with my limited coding knowledge. Assuming it works for anyone else, this seems like a weird error. I saw the post on the forum here about upgrading config files, but those instructions don't seem to fit my situation either.
Does anyone have any suggestions or fixes? Or a more appropriate way to update the files manually if I have to?
Error Report:
Warning: Spoiler!
Error report created by /usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc/show_errors.tcl:
Print file information:
RUN_IN_PLACE=no
LINUXCNC_DIR=
LINUXCNC_BIN_DIR=/usr/bin
LINUXCNC_TCL_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc
LINUXCNC_SCRIPT_DIR=
LINUXCNC_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules
LINUXCNC_CONFIG_DIR=
LINUXCNC_LANG_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc/msgs
INIVAR=inivar
HALCMD=halcmd
LINUXCNC_EMCSH=/usr/bin/wish8.6
LINUXCNC - 2.8.0~pre1
Machine configuration directory is '/home/opsimill12/linuxcnc/configs/Mill12'
Machine configuration file is 'Mill12.ini'
INIFILE=/home/opsimill12/linuxcnc/configs/Mill12/Mill12.ini
VERSION=
halfiles =
halpaths =
update script failed in an unexpected way.
Debug file information:
Can not find -sec EMC -var VERSION -num 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/bin/update_ini", line 221, in <module>
features = int(ini.find('RS274NGC', 'FEATURES'))
TypeError: int() argument must be a string or a number, not 'NoneType'
Info report created by linuxcnc_info:
The file: /tmp/linuxcnc_info.txt
can be posted to a forum or a web site like:
pastebin.com
in order to provide information about the linuxcnc
system and configuration.
Date: Thu Apr 30 11:32:01 PDT 2020
UTC Date: Thu Apr 30 18:32:01 UTC 2020
this program: /usr/bin/linuxcnc_info
uptime: 11:32:01 up 1:21, 1 user, load average: 0.25, 0.86, 0.71
lsb_release -sa: LinuxMint Linuxcnc Uspace Powered by Linux Mint 19.2 Tina 19.2 tina
which linuxcnc: /usr/bin/linuxcnc
pwd: /home/opsimill12
USER: opsimill12
LOGNAME: opsimill12
HOME: /home/opsimill12
EDITOR:
VISUAL:
LANGUAGE: en_US
TERM: dumb
COLORTERM:
DISPLAY: :0.0
DESKTOP: xfce
display size: 1024x768 pixels (271x203 millimeters)
PATH: /usr/bin:/home/opsimill12/linuxcnc/configs/Mill12/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games
uname items:
nodename -n: Mill-12
kernel-name -s: Linux
kernel-vers -v: #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Mar 5 00:02:34 AEDT 2020
machine -m: x86_64
processor -p: x86_64
platform -i: x86_64
oper system -o: GNU/Linux
/proc items:
cmdline: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.19.106-rt44-lcnc root=UUID=5198f658-3a73-4728-b34b-29ed20f1e909 ro quiet splash vt.handoff=1
model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU D2500 @ 1.86GHz
cores: 2
cpu MHz: 1866.819
parport: 0000-0000 : parport0 0000-0000 : parport0 0000-0000 : parport0
serial: 0000-0000 : serial 0000-0000 : serial
Versions:
gcc: gcc (Ubuntu 7.5.0-3ubuntu1~18.04) 7.5.0
python: Python 2.7.17
git: git version 2.17.1
git commit: NA
tcl: 8.6
tk: 8.6
glade: not_in_PATH
glade-gtk2: not_in_PATH
linuxcnc_var all:
LINUXCNCVERSION: 2.8.0~pre1
LINUXCNC_AUX_GLADEVCP: /usr/share/linuxcnc/aux_gladevcp
LINUXCNC_AUX_EXAMPLES: /usr/share/linuxcnc/aux_examples
REALTIME: /etc/init.d/realtime
RTS: uspace
HALLIB_DIR: /usr/share/linuxcnc/hallib
dpkg -l '*linuxcnc*':
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name Version Architecture Description
+++-===================-============================-============-=====================================================================
un linuxcnc <none> <none> (no description available)
un linuxcnc-dev <none> <none> (no description available)
un linuxcnc-doc <none> <none> (no description available)
ii linuxcnc-doc-en 1:2.8.0~pre1.5821.g7525a1528 all motion controller for CNC machines and robots (English documentation)
un linuxcnc-sim <none> <none> (no description available)
un linuxcnc-sim-dev <none> <none> (no description available)
ii linuxcnc-uspace 1:2.8.0~pre1.5821.g7525a1528 amd64 motion controller for CNC machines and robots
ii linuxcnc-uspace-dev 1:2.8.0~pre1.5821.g7525a1528 amd64 PC based motion controller for real-time Linux
Print file information:
RUN_IN_PLACE=no
LINUXCNC_DIR=
LINUXCNC_BIN_DIR=/usr/bin
LINUXCNC_TCL_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc
LINUXCNC_SCRIPT_DIR=
LINUXCNC_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/lib/linuxcnc/modules
LINUXCNC_CONFIG_DIR=
LINUXCNC_LANG_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc/msgs
INIVAR=inivar
HALCMD=halcmd
LINUXCNC_EMCSH=/usr/bin/wish8.6
LINUXCNC - 2.8.0~pre1
Machine configuration directory is '/home/opsimill12/linuxcnc/configs/Mill12'
Machine configuration file is 'Mill12.ini'
INIFILE=/home/opsimill12/linuxcnc/configs/Mill12/Mill12.ini
VERSION=
halfiles =
halpaths =
update script failed in an unexpected way.
Debug file information:
Can not find -sec EMC -var VERSION -num 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/bin/update_ini", line 221, in <module>
features = int(ini.find('RS274NGC', 'FEATURES'))
TypeError: int() argument must be a string or a number, not 'NoneType'
Info report created by linuxcnc_info:
The file: /tmp/linuxcnc_info.txt
can be posted to a forum or a web site like:
pastebin.com
in order to provide information about the linuxcnc
system and configuration.
Date: Thu Apr 30 11:32:01 PDT 2020
UTC Date: Thu Apr 30 18:32:01 UTC 2020
this program: /usr/bin/linuxcnc_info
uptime: 11:32:01 up 1:21, 1 user, load average: 0.25, 0.86, 0.71
lsb_release -sa: LinuxMint Linuxcnc Uspace Powered by Linux Mint 19.2 Tina 19.2 tina
which linuxcnc: /usr/bin/linuxcnc
pwd: /home/opsimill12
USER: opsimill12
LOGNAME: opsimill12
HOME: /home/opsimill12
EDITOR:
VISUAL:
LANGUAGE: en_US
TERM: dumb
COLORTERM:
DISPLAY: :0.0
DESKTOP: xfce
display size: 1024x768 pixels (271x203 millimeters)
PATH: /usr/bin:/home/opsimill12/linuxcnc/configs/Mill12/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games
uname items:
nodename -n: Mill-12
kernel-name -s: Linux
kernel-vers -v: #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Mar 5 00:02:34 AEDT 2020
machine -m: x86_64
processor -p: x86_64
platform -i: x86_64
oper system -o: GNU/Linux
/proc items:
cmdline: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-4.19.106-rt44-lcnc root=UUID=5198f658-3a73-4728-b34b-29ed20f1e909 ro quiet splash vt.handoff=1
model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU D2500 @ 1.86GHz
cores: 2
cpu MHz: 1866.819
parport: 0000-0000 : parport0 0000-0000 : parport0 0000-0000 : parport0
serial: 0000-0000 : serial 0000-0000 : serial
Versions:
gcc: gcc (Ubuntu 7.5.0-3ubuntu1~18.04) 7.5.0
python: Python 2.7.17
git: git version 2.17.1
git commit: NA
tcl: 8.6
tk: 8.6
glade: not_in_PATH
glade-gtk2: not_in_PATH
linuxcnc_var all:
LINUXCNCVERSION: 2.8.0~pre1
LINUXCNC_AUX_GLADEVCP: /usr/share/linuxcnc/aux_gladevcp
LINUXCNC_AUX_EXAMPLES: /usr/share/linuxcnc/aux_examples
REALTIME: /etc/init.d/realtime
RTS: uspace
HALLIB_DIR: /usr/share/linuxcnc/hallib
dpkg -l '*linuxcnc*':
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name Version Architecture Description
+++-===================-============================-============-=====================================================================
un linuxcnc <none> <none> (no description available)
un linuxcnc-dev <none> <none> (no description available)
un linuxcnc-doc <none> <none> (no description available)
ii linuxcnc-doc-en 1:2.8.0~pre1.5821.g7525a1528 all motion controller for CNC machines and robots (English documentation)
un linuxcnc-sim <none> <none> (no description available)
un linuxcnc-sim-dev <none> <none> (no description available)
ii linuxcnc-uspace 1:2.8.0~pre1.5821.g7525a1528 amd64 motion controller for CNC machines and robots
ii linuxcnc-uspace-dev 1:2.8.0~pre1.5821.g7525a1528 amd64 PC based motion controller for real-time Linux
TL;DR - Script error when trying to use the auto-updater for the config files:
Debug file information:
Can not find -sec EMC -var VERSION -num 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/bin/update_ini", line 221, in <module>
features = int(ini.find('RS274NGC', 'FEATURES'))
TypeError: int() argument must be a string or a number, not 'NoneType'
It may not be appropriate to put this in here too, but it's all for installing this, so hopefully this is fine.
Our goal for Max Jitter was previously 7500/7500, but on the new software I'm seeing 100,000+/400,000+. Is this because the software is taking resources and our hardware can't keep up? Is 1.8GHZ Intel Atom D2500 and 4GB ram not enough? Is this because I'm now on a PREEMPT kernel while we were using RTAI before? Do I just not have settings correct? Should I be checking for background processes I don't need running? Other tips/tricks/thoughts on this?
Let me know if there are any other details I'm missing. Thank you for any info you can provide!
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01 May 2020 07:15 #166281
by bbsr_5a
Replied by bbsr_5a on topic Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
Hi
Welcome
as the Config is very old you may need (( and it gives you a better setup also )) to get a new Config from the WIZARD
JITTER
can you please post the output FROM Terminal ----> uname -a
seams there is a wrong kernel running
Welcome
as the Config is very old you may need (( and it gives you a better setup also )) to get a new Config from the WIZARD
JITTER
can you please post the output FROM Terminal ----> uname -a
seams there is a wrong kernel running
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01 May 2020 14:59 - 01 May 2020 14:59 #166328
by ajklotz
Replied by ajklotz on topic Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
Hi, thank you for the response thus far.
For the Config, it seemed like I should probably start expecting to just have to re-do it. It's just that these mills were set up a long time ago, and I think my boss didn't want to have to go through figuring it all out again since everything is already dialed in. That's pretty much on me now, so I guess I'll have to figure it out. Any chance you have tips on at least referencing the old config for values I might be able to re-use during set-up?
For the Jitter: the output from that command is:
As far as I'm aware, this is the one that came with the Linux Mint ISO I grabbed from here.
Thanks again
For the Config, it seemed like I should probably start expecting to just have to re-do it. It's just that these mills were set up a long time ago, and I think my boss didn't want to have to go through figuring it all out again since everything is already dialed in. That's pretty much on me now, so I guess I'll have to figure it out. Any chance you have tips on at least referencing the old config for values I might be able to re-use during set-up?
For the Jitter: the output from that command is:
Linux Mill-12 4.19.106-rt44-lcnc #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Thu Mar 5 00:02:34 AEDT 2020 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
As far as I'm aware, this is the one that came with the Linux Mint ISO I grabbed from here.
Thanks again
Last edit: 01 May 2020 14:59 by ajklotz.
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01 May 2020 15:05 #166330
by bbsr_5a
Replied by bbsr_5a on topic Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
the jitter shoudt be better then bevor as mint dont access powerconsuming
is there a USB device on the system like WIFI .... some adapter
maybe your optical mouse does prompt the power
if you upload the intirer machine Folder someone coudt quick get a working copy back to you
WHAT linuxcnc version are you on
the iso needs to be updatet to 2.8
is there a USB device on the system like WIFI .... some adapter
maybe your optical mouse does prompt the power
if you upload the intirer machine Folder someone coudt quick get a working copy back to you
WHAT linuxcnc version are you on
the iso needs to be updatet to 2.8
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18 May 2020 21:42 #168194
by ajklotz
Hi there, sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. They moved me onto another project for a bit and I was expecting to see an email when there was a reply, so I didn't think to check back.
The board we are running is Intel D2500HN, which doesn't appear to have onboard WiFi, and I don't think we have added any other cards. Not sure about the mouse either. Is there something I can do to check?
LinuxCNC says I have 2.8.0~pre on the splash screen. When you mean "upload the entire machine folder", do you mean the machine folder we were previously using so someone could look at updating/concerting it? I have attached that.
Just for the most up-to-date reference point, I'm running the Latency Test, moved some windows, loaded Youtube video. 80386 Servo Thread/119874 Base Thread. This same hardware used to have the Latency Test resulting under 7500, so I'm not sure if I should be concerned with the hardware, or if the software is just too much more for it, or I'm just not set up correctly trying to go from RTAI kernel to Preempt like now..
I'm already super new to all of this, and now I'm a couple weeks rusty on top of that, but any info at all would be helpful while I continue to scour for information or alternate software set-ups.
Replied by ajklotz on topic Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
the jitter shoudt be better then bevor as mint dont access powerconsuming
is there a USB device on the system like WIFI .... some adapter
maybe your optical mouse does prompt the power
if you upload the intirer machine Folder someone coudt quick get a working copy back to you
WHAT linuxcnc version are you on
the iso needs to be updatet to 2.8
Hi there, sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. They moved me onto another project for a bit and I was expecting to see an email when there was a reply, so I didn't think to check back.
The board we are running is Intel D2500HN, which doesn't appear to have onboard WiFi, and I don't think we have added any other cards. Not sure about the mouse either. Is there something I can do to check?
LinuxCNC says I have 2.8.0~pre on the splash screen. When you mean "upload the entire machine folder", do you mean the machine folder we were previously using so someone could look at updating/concerting it? I have attached that.
Just for the most up-to-date reference point, I'm running the Latency Test, moved some windows, loaded Youtube video. 80386 Servo Thread/119874 Base Thread. This same hardware used to have the Latency Test resulting under 7500, so I'm not sure if I should be concerned with the hardware, or if the software is just too much more for it, or I'm just not set up correctly trying to go from RTAI kernel to Preempt like now..
I'm already super new to all of this, and now I'm a couple weeks rusty on top of that, but any info at all would be helpful while I continue to scour for information or alternate software set-ups.
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18 May 2020 22:03 #168195
by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
In general you are not likely to see very good Preemt-RT latency numbers on low power CPUs like the D2500.
Is there some reason not to use the old Wheezy RTAI image?
Is there some reason not to use the old Wheezy RTAI image?
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18 May 2020 22:38 #168200
by ajklotz
The original reason I switched to this was my newborn knowledge in all of this was based around the Ubuntu 10.04 we had been using. By the time I fought through any form of updating/fresh-installing anything newer than that, I finally did end up trying that Wheezy iso.
I got caught up in some of the differences trying to now be using Debian. It was missing bits and pieces I was used to having and I couldn't get the repositories working to get any of it.. Mainly that I couldn't get our network drive mounted and couldn't get samba.
Then I found that an ubuntu/mint version was floating around, which instantly had me back and feeling comfortable with getting things set up. Ended up switching that to XFCE because it was running like garbage and I had seen how well XFCE went while I was trying Ubuntu 18 along the way.
Then I finally got to the latency test and found out how off the mark I was.
If it would be easier/required to just get used to whatever I need to do with Debian/wheezy and go back to getting RTAI going, I can do that.. I was originally tasked with 'update everything' and it seemed like wheezy was already running out of support, but if just using that iso is the best shot I've got, I'll give it another go.
Replied by ajklotz on topic Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
In general you are not likely to see very good Preemt-RT latency numbers on low power CPUs like the D2500.
Is there some reason not to use the old Wheezy RTAI image?
The original reason I switched to this was my newborn knowledge in all of this was based around the Ubuntu 10.04 we had been using. By the time I fought through any form of updating/fresh-installing anything newer than that, I finally did end up trying that Wheezy iso.
I got caught up in some of the differences trying to now be using Debian. It was missing bits and pieces I was used to having and I couldn't get the repositories working to get any of it.. Mainly that I couldn't get our network drive mounted and couldn't get samba.
Then I found that an ubuntu/mint version was floating around, which instantly had me back and feeling comfortable with getting things set up. Ended up switching that to XFCE because it was running like garbage and I had seen how well XFCE went while I was trying Ubuntu 18 along the way.
Then I finally got to the latency test and found out how off the mark I was.
If it would be easier/required to just get used to whatever I need to do with Debian/wheezy and go back to getting RTAI going, I can do that.. I was originally tasked with 'update everything' and it seemed like wheezy was already running out of support, but if just using that iso is the best shot I've got, I'll give it another go.
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18 May 2020 22:46 #168203
by PCW
Replied by PCW on topic Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
There is a buster/RTAI image floating around, that may be worth a try
Maybe someone with more direct current RTAI experience can chime in here
Maybe someone with more direct current RTAI experience can chime in here
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19 May 2020 06:59 #168230
by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
There were two Mint ISO's with RTAI, one made by me, but i can not find it !
It can be used as live version to test but installing it to HDD had some issues and failed. The other one was removed.
Fount it
forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc...-rtai-and-preempt-rt
It can be used as live version to test but installing it to HDD had some issues and failed. The other one was removed.
Fount it
forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc...-rtai-and-preempt-rt
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19 May 2020 17:27 #168286
by ajklotz
Firstly, thank you for the time and reply and info.
Then, I'm not trying to be a pain, but this is all so new and confusing so:
I see that should be an ISO with RTAI, but I'm concerned about the "boot from usb" only. We have 12+ mills we are looking to run this on and I'm not sure Boot from USB is going to be an acceptable end result for my boss. Looking through the thread, it looked like it was back and forth on whether it could eventually be tweaked enough to get it to install.
If the main issue I have right now is the Kernel, can I just swap to the RTAI kernel, or does the entire image need to be built around that? I found this along the way: linuxcnc.org/temp/ but I wouldn't know which one to grab. The RTAI with AMD64 in the name?
Or is it still going to be easier to try to get Wheezy going and deal with learning what I have to learn with Debian and fixing the repositories? With how slow Ubuntu 18.04 and Mint Mate (or cinnamon?) were running, I'm concerned that main distro might not be light enough? Is there an XFCE equivalent?
Replied by ajklotz on topic Config Auto-Updater Not Working / Crazy Jitter Numbers?
There were two Mint ISO's with RTAI, one made by me, but i can not find it !
It can be used as live version to test but installing it to HDD had some issues and failed. The other one was removed.
Fount it
forum.linuxcnc.org/9-installing-linuxcnc...-rtai-and-preempt-rt
Firstly, thank you for the time and reply and info.
Then, I'm not trying to be a pain, but this is all so new and confusing so:
I see that should be an ISO with RTAI, but I'm concerned about the "boot from usb" only. We have 12+ mills we are looking to run this on and I'm not sure Boot from USB is going to be an acceptable end result for my boss. Looking through the thread, it looked like it was back and forth on whether it could eventually be tweaked enough to get it to install.
If the main issue I have right now is the Kernel, can I just swap to the RTAI kernel, or does the entire image need to be built around that? I found this along the way: linuxcnc.org/temp/ but I wouldn't know which one to grab. The RTAI with AMD64 in the name?
Or is it still going to be easier to try to get Wheezy going and deal with learning what I have to learn with Debian and fixing the repositories? With how slow Ubuntu 18.04 and Mint Mate (or cinnamon?) were running, I'm concerned that main distro might not be light enough? Is there an XFCE equivalent?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
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