retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus

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11 May 2016 12:55 #74504 by new2linux
new2linux created the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus
This is a retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus to a modern controller, utilizing the plug and go kit 5i25, 7i77 with cable. The p&g kit arrived last week and after removing power supply box and drives from the mill I am ready to start the process of change over. Attached are several pic of what I have to start with, there is a E-stop not pictured (just a stand alone push-in/twist to release that I plan to reuse), I plan to try to use the same cable connectors and would like to pre-cut openings for 3nd axes even if I don't install that now(need all the hardware) so wonder what type of connectors are required, as to be able to cut openings in the case. As the power supply box looks all most full it requires the removal of circuit board with the hope the 7i77 will be made to fit. When viewing the pics use the red square plug as a reference point in each pic, you see the close up pic that is the under side of the card between the case, if I am able to separate the socket off the card I may be able to reuse the socket for the drive encoders. If this is not possible what are the requirements for a matching set of plugs & sockets, I know the cable needs to be shielded? The 7i77 card location needs to allow for access to wire the one side, and need access to tweek and test as I go, correct?

Many thanks
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11 May 2016 20:02 #74527 by andypugh
andypugh replied the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus

new2linux wrote: you see the close up pic that is the under side of the card between the case, if I am able to separate the socket off the card I may be able to reuse the socket for the drive encoders.


I think that looks like a soldered D-sub connector. If you undo the screws on the outside I think you will find that the connector comes away with the board to leave a hole.

D-sub connectors are very easy to source.
The following user(s) said Thank You: new2linux
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12 May 2016 14:03 #74552 by new2linux
new2linux replied the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus
I have found the card stays with the sockets, the sockets I need will be the pic #768 (in prior post), this is the prototrak socket, round 9 pin (I am not completely shore if all 9 pins are required), that has ring to screw on the base as to keep from pulling apart. What are the other requirements for a generic type of plug, or what are the others using, that is popular. Control wire size will be 18 and power supply 14?

many thanks
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12 May 2016 14:54 #74554 by andypugh
andypugh replied the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus
The round sockets look like what are generically known as MIL-spec connectors.

www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/211103-1

And the datasheet looks like a good start. (The picture is of a member of the family, not the part).
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12 May 2016 16:24 #74559 by new2linux
new2linux replied the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus
Attached is a pic of the encoder end of the drive there are 7 wires total, 1 is larger and is used as ground and notice the end of the cable is sealed in side the housing as well as the end cap seal.

Andy many thanks for your help I will look at mil spec stuff to see what is available.
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12 May 2016 17:29 #74561 by andypugh
andypugh replied the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus
Maybe I wasn't clear. That link I gave was to your exact connector. I got it from the part number visible in the photo.

From the attached datasheet you ought to be able to find versions that are not PCB-mounted and also the mating parts.

Be aware that many connectors of this type come as just a shell and you need to buy the terminals separately. And then some come with the terminals but not the backshell and cable gland.
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12 May 2016 20:14 #74567 by new2linux
new2linux replied the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus
Andy you are 100% good with me, after reading your reply, I looked close at the plugs and found a manufacture (AMP), found a vendor and ordered (got the education about the pins/sockets sold separate). Purchased the solder on, w/gold flash plate for just what was required.
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16 May 2016 16:09 - 16 May 2016 16:15 #74748 by new2linux
new2linux replied the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus
This is the planed layout, notice the package is still on the 7i77 card, to do this a opening to the end of the case will be required and some openings will be not be required. My plan (please jump in here with constructive assistance) is to wire and test (what I can) on the bench w/o the case at all, I know how I am and the ability to see it together before I cut the case will help decide the locations. I believe a few connection blocks/strips will be required as well. As you see the case is full, if I find a larger case I may want to make it fit my requirements vs. put time in this one and if I use this one I want to do all my drilling at one time while the case is empty. I used oven cleaner and a brush on the case then power washed it.

Is their a wiring color/number proto call? Suggestions on best approach, connector selection, a way to start that is better than another?

Edit: not the best pic, this is the bottom of the case, all connections are on the back (to the right, by the 7i77 card in the pink), the card is at the back of the case so all wiring will have access.
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Last Edit: 16 May 2016 16:15 by new2linux.
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18 May 2016 12:40 #74809 by new2linux
new2linux replied the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus
This was a question I asked of Todd va. private message about wire mapping of Prototrak Plus controller and his reply.

Todd, I have read in other posts about bench testing & wire map (as read at this post forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/12-milling/2966...eract-refit?start=10 )

This is referencing a retrofit prior to disassemble for re-assembly with 5i25 & 7i77 cards. How does one decide (or do the mapping) the wire position/selection to the 7i77 card to the encoders.

I plan to wire and test before installing in case.

Many thanks!
Chris

Generally it is nicer to post questions to the public forum or mail list, so that answers can help others with similar questions.

Start by studying the documentation and schematics original to the machine. Then the same for any new hardware you are adding (or using to replace old). Actually your new wiring should be very similar to that used by the old controls. Get out pencil and paper, and start taking notes from the documentation and observations of what you see in the machine cabinet, writing down what wires need to be moved to new connections on your new cards.

If you don't have documentation for your machine, get some. If you can't get any, your job just got exponentially more difficult. If you have documentation and schematics, but you don't know how to make heads or tails of it, you may want to reconsider doing a machine retrofit yourself.

The encoder wires generally will go from the motors to the servo drives, then the signal is sent from there to the old control. You want to move the wires from the old control to your new one (Linuxcnc via your 7i77 card). Encoders generally will have 3-4 pairs of wires that may need to be connected to the 7i77. Most encoders use differential signal pairs A/A-, B/B-, Z/Z- and +5v/ground (the Z is an optional index signal that may or may not be present). If the encoders are single ended then there would only be the A,B, and Z plus power/ground.

Other wiring needed for the servo, would be the analog signal wiring, and servo enable. The enable connections on the 7i77 works like a simple switch, but getting the polarity correct is essential, or the switch on the 7i77 could easily be ruined.

Most everything else would be classified as GPIO and could include most anything you could imagine for operating a machine.

For Testing, If you are reusing existing motors and drives, it is probably simplest to test them in place but disconnected from the mechanics of the machine (remove the motor shaft coupler). If you are testing new drives and motors, then by all means doing it on a bench is not a bad idea at all. (I did on one of my machine conversions). It let me figure out things like motor commutation, encoder direction, and servo drive wiring, before tearing apart the machine.

Good Luck and Have Fun!

Todd Zuercher

I have requested from the manufacture the diagrams or other information about the encoders, I hope this is not to much to ask.
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18 May 2016 13:09 #74811 by new2linux
new2linux replied the topic: retrofit Bridgeport Prototrak Plus
Todd, from early post (#73671) you said "Your Magnetek drives are probably just a re-branded Yaskawa product, just have to figure out which one."

If I knew which Yaskawa product, I could work backward. What is the best approach, match the specification by referencing data from tag on drive to current drives? I am searching for a 2nd way if manufacture does not help.

Attached are some pic of the Magnetek drives.
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