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deckel fp4ma retrofit
9 years 10 months ago #84159
by bahrabadi
Replied by bahrabadi on topic deckel fp4ma retrofit
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9 years 10 months ago #84165
by andypugh
Replied by andypugh on topic deckel fp4ma retrofit
Drives that take step/dir are not necessarily better, and would be rather hard to integrate into your machine, where there are no encoders on the motors.
Your system has DC servos with tachometers. A +/- 10V analogue control signal into the drive is interpreted as a motor speed request. The tachometer on the motor is motor speed feedback, and is used to close a velocity feedback loop.
The controller reads the glass scales on the machine slides and from that it knows the current position. It then sends velocity commands to the drives to control the position loop.
A step-dir drive needs position feedback from the motor, almost always from an encoder on the motor.
The current system of velocity-mode drives and direct position feedback from the machine slides is just about the best system available. It would be a retrograde step to change that.
The drives will have interlock/enable inputs. You will just have to study the wiring diagrams until you work out which they are.
Can you confirm that you received the wiring diagrams?
Your system has DC servos with tachometers. A +/- 10V analogue control signal into the drive is interpreted as a motor speed request. The tachometer on the motor is motor speed feedback, and is used to close a velocity feedback loop.
The controller reads the glass scales on the machine slides and from that it knows the current position. It then sends velocity commands to the drives to control the position loop.
A step-dir drive needs position feedback from the motor, almost always from an encoder on the motor.
The current system of velocity-mode drives and direct position feedback from the machine slides is just about the best system available. It would be a retrograde step to change that.
The drives will have interlock/enable inputs. You will just have to study the wiring diagrams until you work out which they are.
Can you confirm that you received the wiring diagrams?
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9 years 10 months ago #84171
by bahrabadi
Replied by bahrabadi on topic deckel fp4ma retrofit
well i got those wiring diagrams but i didn't learn much becuase I'm a manufacturing engineer and not very good with electrical diagrams.the reason I want to have step ond direction is that it is make sence to me.nevertheless is it possible to use 5i25 and 7i77 in this machine ?if not is there any other options?
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9 years 10 months ago #84174
by ROG
Replied by ROG on topic deckel fp4ma retrofit
The Cylindrical objects are motors to change the spindle gear ratio, so nothing to concern yourself with at the moment.
The control seems to be reading at least 2 of your 3 LINEAR encoders.
Something is preventing the control from enabling the drive. You mentioned a damaged contactor.
It will be there for a reason so that might be a good place to look as it may well be preventing the control form enabling the drive, along with everything else.
I don't know what the start up sequence is for the dialog control.
There should be an initial power on and then when its on, it will want to reference (home) all the axis. If the Dialog control is "waking up" and reading the encoders, it suggests that fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the control itself, it just isn't seeing the right conditions to enable the drive and allow axis movement. Do you get any error message on the control display?
I would have thought that it would tell you what it wasn't happy about?
There isn't something daft like any of the E-stop buttons locked in the E-stop position? worth checking. I myself have fallen for that one and indulged in a 4 hour multi meter fault finding mission to find out that the night before id inadvertently bumped into a remote e-stop mushroom . (AP - yes ... Peroni related!)
You have two choices. Find out why the control wont enable the drive, or work out what it needs to manually enable it with a 24V connection.
There could even be a switch on procedure for the control that you're not following. have a look at the flip over cards and see if that sheds any light on things.
There should be a lot of clunking going on in the cabinet when you try to enable the control, as it operates various contactors.......
There may even be an E-stop signal running through the damaged contactor, in which case it will never enable. If any of the wires on the broken contactor are red, that would indicate to me that its part of the E-stop loop. From memory, the only red wires in my cabinet relate to the e-stop loop.
The control seems to be reading at least 2 of your 3 LINEAR encoders.
Something is preventing the control from enabling the drive. You mentioned a damaged contactor.
It will be there for a reason so that might be a good place to look as it may well be preventing the control form enabling the drive, along with everything else.
I don't know what the start up sequence is for the dialog control.
There should be an initial power on and then when its on, it will want to reference (home) all the axis. If the Dialog control is "waking up" and reading the encoders, it suggests that fundamentally there is nothing wrong with the control itself, it just isn't seeing the right conditions to enable the drive and allow axis movement. Do you get any error message on the control display?
I would have thought that it would tell you what it wasn't happy about?
There isn't something daft like any of the E-stop buttons locked in the E-stop position? worth checking. I myself have fallen for that one and indulged in a 4 hour multi meter fault finding mission to find out that the night before id inadvertently bumped into a remote e-stop mushroom . (AP - yes ... Peroni related!)
You have two choices. Find out why the control wont enable the drive, or work out what it needs to manually enable it with a 24V connection.
There could even be a switch on procedure for the control that you're not following. have a look at the flip over cards and see if that sheds any light on things.
There should be a lot of clunking going on in the cabinet when you try to enable the control, as it operates various contactors.......
There may even be an E-stop signal running through the damaged contactor, in which case it will never enable. If any of the wires on the broken contactor are red, that would indicate to me that its part of the E-stop loop. From memory, the only red wires in my cabinet relate to the e-stop loop.
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9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #84177
by bahrabadi
Replied by bahrabadi on topic deckel fp4ma retrofit
well about estop.when i press one of them i hear a vivid sound of a contactor that become unactive and when i release emergency button the contactor become active again.i forgot to tell you i repaired the contactor.my main concern is to replace the controller becuase lets say if it can be fixed ;what good it will do?an old controller that couldnt accept gcodes from cam softwares.my goal is to make sure my drivers are ok then searching for a way to use mach3 or linuxcnc as a controller
Last edit: 9 years 10 months ago by bahrabadi.
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9 years 10 months ago #84178
by andypugh
If you pull / push the machine in the Y direction do you see movement on the Y position readout? You only need to move it a few microns.
Replied by andypugh on topic deckel fp4ma retrofit
ROG wrote: The control seems to be reading at least 2 of your 3 LINEAR encoders.
If you pull / push the machine in the Y direction do you see movement on the Y position readout? You only need to move it a few microns.
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