Retrofitting rotomat/screw machine

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24 Jul 2020 16:36 #175653 by Nikl
Retrofitting rotomat. was created by Nikl
Hello. I am planning to retrofit rotomat that has 8 analog variable frequency drive spindles 1 servo spindle and 13 servo axes. Does anyone have any idea about where to find a motion controller for that type of operation and also software to control it? I know that Siemens 840D supports many different operations at once but I was looking at something cheaper if possible.

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24 Jul 2020 16:50 - 26 Jul 2020 20:33 #175657 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Retrofitting rotomat.
We would need much more info than that for any reasonable answer.
LinuxCNC can work with many spindles and with 9 axis with several joints each.
Google rotomat bring results of carousel storage units, so if that is what you are after, LinuxCNC might work, but Siemens 840D will not for sure, Last time i checked a few years back, 840 could do 5 axis and 2 spindles.
Going off tangent her, so more info, pictures, etc, would help a lot.
Last edit: 26 Jul 2020 20:33 by tommylight. Reason: typo
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nikl

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24 Jul 2020 18:25 #175666 by Nikl
Replied by Nikl on topic Retrofitting rotomat.
Sorry for such a dry question. A right terminology is a screw machine in English. The example machine is index ms32p but the one that I am retrofitting is a much older machine and hydraulic based. The index 840d has the capability of up to 32 axes/spindles and what is most important in my case is 10 machining channels. So that means that I am essentially doing 10 different pieces even tho I am doing just 1. I don't think that LinuxCNC supports that but if it does that is amazing. I think mach4 industrial has 6 but that is still not enough for my application. Now I have been thinking that I will make this as a 10 separate linuxCNC driven CNC machines. Every controller will control one spindle and one axis. I will synchronize everything with a plc. Cause Index 840d runs around 10k (not sure but I know it cannot be a lot less, maybe even more) and that is a bit too much for my situation. I will expand on my idea and I will see if it is stupid or it would actually work. My problem in solving this solution is, do I assemble a computer and make 10 virtual desktops and run 10 linuxcnc, which could be a shitshow, or do I buy 10 Rasberry pys and go from there. I would like to hear your opinions on the subject.

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24 Jul 2020 20:33 #175672 by tommylight
Replied by tommylight on topic Retrofitting rotomat.
That makes some things easier,
LinuxCNC can do up to 8 (not sure about this, could not find it) joints as one single axis, or maybe more so that would mean you can have 8 spindles mounted to 8 Z axis each set up as a joint inside the Z axis, so each of them can have its limits and switches and home, but after homing will do the same thing. That would mean 8 separately controlled spindles.
To much?
There are even more ways of making all that work, some are simpler, some more complicated, but all are doable.
No need for 10 computers or RPI, and LinuxCNC will not work for controlling machines in a virtual environment.
The easiest way is to connect one output to 10 inputs for the axis and spindle, that will also work without a hitch, but the above has way more control and can have settings and offsets for each separately.
Again a video or pictures would help much more.
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26 Jul 2020 17:03 #175926 by Nikl
Hy. Thanks for the good suggestions. I have abandoned both of my previous ideas and have been thinking of doing 8-10 little grbl machines but I can't find any professional way to do that and cause I am doing this for someone I don't want to go there every month cause something failed. So if I could work this trough linuxcnc it would be the best. If i understand correctly i can control the speed of each spindle independently? It is not at the most important but it would be very good cause you have different sized drills and you would obviously need different speeds. If the control of the speed would not be possible the control of the 8 different z-axis movements would be crucial. The best scenario would be if I could do both. So my machine is composed of the first station that is essentially normal lathe with 3 axis and main spindle. Then a small robot arm moves that part to the turning wheel which has clamping jaws and you can then work on the piece with different drills and milling cutters. If the lathe part and the turning wheel part are on 2 separate linuxcnc machines that would not be the problem. I have made some pictures of the machine so you could imagine how it would all work. If you have somewhere documented the things in more detail, that you were talking about then that would be werry helpful. Is it in the linuxcnc document?
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26 Jul 2020 17:52 #175938 by tommylight
That looks much simpler than what i saw on the net, so might be even easier.
Can you also take some pictures of the control box and electronics ?

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26 Jul 2020 18:08 #175942 by Nikl
That would be hard cause there are no electronics haha. this machine was built before they had any good electronics for this kind of machine. It runs on a principle that you cut out oval rings and that oval rings spin and push the hydraulic fluid which pushes the spindles forward and then spring pushes them back. We are planning to mechanically disassemble the machine and put on the ballscrews and motors for the z-axis instead of the hydraulic movement. The only electronic is for the motors for the spindles, which speed you set with the potentiometer, and I think some simple logic board to control the movement of the robot arm and the turning wheel. Now the procedure is extremely long to set up the part. You have to laser cut each oval ring cause with them you set the movement of the spindles. It was only worth taking few million parts, but with this retrofit, 100,000 would be worth taking. The electronics would be changed out entirely.

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26 Jul 2020 20:32 #175964 by tommylight
OK. Still i would be all over it, i like challenges.

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26 Jul 2020 21:27 #175977 by Nikl
Can you elaborate a bit more on that 8 joint actions or at least where to find more information on that? That is the best option I have for now. Thanks a lot for all the help.

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26 Jul 2020 21:46 #175979 by tommylight
Step by step, to much info makes a mess, and i am causing most of that mess as i have not enough info to work with, but we are advancing ...
LinuxCNC can do 9 axis, each can have more than one joint or motor, so as an example lets say 8 joints per axis, that makes 72 motors. It can also do non axis motor control, a lot of logic stuff that can be used in many ways to control motors/valves/solenoids/relays etc.
So it is not the question of "can it be done", most of the time the question is "how to do that" in the best way given so many possibilities. So as you can see from the above that is not easy to answer, at least not until we gather a bit more info on how the machine functions.
To recap, it has 10 spindles controlled and riven by how many motors/drives/VFD's ?
It will have 10 Z axis after you replace the existing "follower" function to motor driven type ???
It has lubrication and cooling, also can be controlled from LinuxCNC,
Anything else you can add, even some hand drawings of how things function would help a lot.

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