hydraulic motor lathe turret, keep switches or switch to rotary encoder ?

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06 May 2022 02:35 #242100 by smc.collins
So I have a turret style lathe, it has 6 positions, and ID and OD tools. so 12 tools on 6 stops. The current configuration is 4 contact switches, and 2 for turret lock/unlock. It also has a hydraulic motor that turns a ring and pinion gear arrangement, the control of the hydraulic motor looks to mostly be getting the PLC correct. Flip on the relay, feed oil, spin turret. is it better to put a  300ppr " as an example" rotary encoder on the turret or stick with the 4 switch configuration, which one would be more robust in terms of accurately figuring out where the turret is in it's rotation ? the encoder would also have the advantage of a Index point. 

Has anyone done either configuration and if so what are the pro's and cons of each, I did some googling and I didn't come up with much. 

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06 May 2022 04:58 #242101 by Henk
I would stick to the current setup and use the carousel component. Your setup most likely produce a BCD code on the 4 switches 

Type man carousel in a terminal 

 

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06 May 2022 10:00 #242112 by tommylight

Your setup most likely produce a BCD code on the 4 switches 

 

Or "grayscale" signals.

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06 May 2022 10:57 - 06 May 2022 11:27 #242120 by smc.collins
The 4 switches used to run to a card in the arcamatic io rack. They do produce a 16 combination array for position, i could wire them up to 4 inputs, 
Last edit: 06 May 2022 11:27 by smc.collins.

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06 May 2022 12:19 #242130 by andypugh
Do you have the array? We can try to decode it.

Does the rest of the machine use hydraulics? If it is just the turret then it might make sense to swap the hydraulic motor for a servo. Just to be quieter and cheaper to run.

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06 May 2022 16:59 #242154 by smc.collins
The machine uses hydraulics everywhere, tailstock, chuck, way lube etc. It has a dedicated 7.5hp hydraulic pump with cooling system.

I do have the switch array info however.

I'm not to the point of being ready just yet but shortly. There is some concern of other parts of the machine, namely resolvers being compatible with the 7i49 board. So i may wind up doing a heavy retrofit depending on what the outcome of the resolver situation is.

I do concur that a servi might be more practical and I also have a few spare encoders and large steppers around.

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06 May 2022 19:16 #242165 by andypugh

There is some concern of other parts of the machine, namely resolvers being compatible with the 7i49 board. 
 

Have you talked to Mesa?

Do the resolvers connect directly to the existing drives? The 7i49 does need to be providing the excitation voltage to the resolvers. If the drive also needs to do that, then there can be trouble (I don't recall if you are the one planning on 8i20 drives?)

That said, in cases where the drives use the resolvers for commutation, there is generally a secondary feedback for the controller. Either separate scales on the axes or quadrature pulses from the drive electronics. 
 

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06 May 2022 21:18 - 06 May 2022 23:15 #242177 by smc.collins
The resolvers connected to the IO rack and communicated on a serial bus of unknown design to the servo control cards.

I did find information about similar resolvers.

I think however that given the age of the resolvers and the questionable specifications, I'm probably going to just dump them and install encoders.

It'll certainly get the machine up and running much faster.

In intend to stick with the Acramatic drives, the Z servo is 7.5hp and the x is 5hp, these are not trivially sized drives  the spindle servo is 30hp.All are DC drives. The resolvers themselves are on geared couplings attached to the lead screws and the spindle itself with a takeoff belt on a standalone housing.. I am not particularly worried about the physical conversion aspect of the resolvers nor really the electrical conversion. 

She's a big powerful machine
Last edit: 06 May 2022 23:15 by smc.collins.

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07 May 2022 20:40 #242248 by andypugh

I think however that given the age of the resolvers and the questionable specifications, I'm probably going to just dump them and install encoders.
 

If they are brushless resolvers then they should last effectively indefinitely.  There are no LEDs or sensors, just coils of wire. 

And they don't really have specifications. They can have more than one pole (ie, more than one sin-cos cycle per turn) and sometimes a 2:1 rather than 1:1 transformer ratio, but once you have worked that out they just work. For ever. 
 
The following user(s) said Thank You: smc.collins

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07 May 2022 20:53 #242254 by smc.collins
the resolver datasheet state Ratio of 0.5, and it is a 5v resolver, but since it's just a coil of wire, I don't see whay the exact voltage would matter a whole lot, but the turns ratio certainly would. 

Here's a link to the datasheet, tell me what you think,I removed the actual resolver and I have it in hand,  to my brain these seem like they should work with a 7i49. Also these resolvers are on 2:1 stepup gear boxs to increase resolution. 

www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/28/11BRW-300-M10B-958150.pdf

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