Hypertherm powermax 85

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06 Dec 2023 16:09 #287363 by tommylight

I was struggling with qtplasmac. I could not toggle the estop,

This reminds me, why is this still the default in QtPlasmaC?
Pretty sure i have mentioned this before, i need to edit the hal file to be able to use the machines.
Using the E-stop is a button feature, configs made with PncConf.

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07 Dec 2023 11:18 #287433 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic Cnc table for plasma cutter!
If you were building a mill, I would say start with axis and try others later.
But plasma is a bit special so I think I would start with qtplasmac.
It is a bit funny with estop handling, read up on qtplasmac estop modes

To start with, focus on building a basic machine that has a functional estop, motors that move and home, then add the plasma specific bits one at aa time.

While you are reading, the plasma primer covers  the basics of plasma cutting ad how and why qtplasmac has certain features
linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/plasma/plasma-cnc-primer.html

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09 Dec 2023 23:11 #287727 by Etkoehn
Yeah I need to learn a lot more of it for sure. Will be doing some more reading on it soon

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09 Dec 2023 23:23 #287728 by Etkoehn
I definitely need to do a lot more reading. The thing is it’s information overload and my eyes start to gloss over. But I have been reading and I will get it will just take me a long time. It helps if I am able to do some things and then read a little to overcome the problem I am experiencing at that moment. 
I should be able to start building the table next week to get the motors mounted. I wired all the power supplies and the drivers. You can tell me what you think and where I have errored on the wiring and layout. I am a mechanic by trade so it’s kinda hard to do this with a hammer and baling twine.  youtube.com/shorts/uxy19WZkELQ?si=7896woIDqnIHwkcO
I still need to mount this in a cabinet and am planning on installing a fuse box on the line side. Is there any other fuses I should install? Can all these electronics be in the same box or do they need separated?

thanks in advance.

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19 Dec 2023 08:08 #288559 by Etkoehn
I have started building the CNC table. I have the Linear rails for the gantry to ride on, but don't have crossmember fastened yet. Original plan was to weld it to the two side pieces but I am now reconsidering and am wanting to bolt it in place. If I ever have to remove it any of it I will have to remove everything if its welded. If I bolt it it will be easy to take apart then. 
I do have a few Questions.
1   Do you think running one linear rail (HGR15) will be enough on the x axis?
2   Is 50-60lbs (22-27kg)to heavy for a Gantry that is 5 feet wide (1.5m)?
3   What is a good free or at least affordable cam and cad software for a cnc plasma table?
4   Will there be any problems having all my Drivers, PSUs, Mesa Boards and PC all in the same metal cabinet?

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19 Dec 2023 08:44 #288561 by tommylight
1. It is enough, but the Z axis and motors must be mounted as near to rail as possible, otherwise vibrations...
2. it is usable, just do not expect "racing" accelerations, plasma works even with quite low accelerations for anything thicker than 2mm
3. Inkscape free and waht i use, SheetCam not free what others here use.
4. Not usually if the box is big enough, using a fan help during summer time, fan on the bottom of the case pushing air in, exhaust on the sides or bottom.

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19 Dec 2023 13:11 #288581 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic Cnc table for plasma cutter!
1. If you find JoCo's origami plasma build thread here, you will see he added a second HGR15 due to rigidity issues. So no, while a single HGR15 seems to meet the requirement on paper, it is not rigid enough in the real world.
2. after some extensive engieering calcs developed over 3 months, we concluded that for a 20-30 kg gantry, a 30mm pinion, 5:1 reduction and a small NEMA34 motor was required. I used a Moon ML34HD2l4500 5 amp motor. There was a case to use a slightly larger Moon 7 amp motor.
3. Onshape is free for CAD, buy Sheetcam. It has a post processor for plasmac
4. No issues with a single box.

On the motors, we used Lam Technologies drivers at 62 volts AC (55 volts might be safer) and achived 5 m/sec/sec (about 0.5 G) accelleration and 30 m/min rapids. I wrote a custom component to leverage Lam's boost feature so they could cool off at constant velocity as what we were doing would not be achievable with standard drivers. We relied on our engineering with open loop steppers which never lost steps. We wanted the massive low down torque for accelleration.

I might add the only NEMA 23/24 motor I have seen to meet our design parameters is an ethercat closed loop one from rtelligent (their largest). But I have not used one.

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19 Dec 2023 17:04 #288599 by tommylight
Rod, JoCo has motors and reductions way to high, so all the weight is at the very top.
Keeping weight balanced and as close to the rail improves things a lot, but physical constraints might not allow that always.
And the most important part, to what the rail is bolted to, weight will bend that part way before a HiWin or NSK or THK 15 rail will move.
I have done some tests with HGR25 and a 4mm thick walled square 80x80mm metal profile will bend a lot with 15kg weight at 50cm from the rail when that rail is bolted to the middle of that profile, less so when bolted near edges.
Have a look at my machines, all have rails at or near the top of the aluminium profile and the Z axis is mounted so the carriage/rail is roughly at the center mass of the Z.
Given enough acceleration, everything bends and vobles, it is just a balance of several factors to limit that.
A while back i had a small cnc router with over 40kg cantalivered on a THK45 long carriage, rail bolted to a 6mm thick 200x100 metal profile, it was very usable as accelerations were low, but moving Z axis from near the rail to the hanging side would dip 0.3mm just from weight. That carriage can handle over 20 tons, so the rail and carriage can hande that easily, everything else can not. I did step on the hanging part, it moved a lot but the rail and carriage did not care at all that i added 86kg sideways to it!
To be on the safe side, use 2 of HGR15 rails, as Rod said.

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20 Dec 2023 00:14 - 20 Dec 2023 00:25 #288630 by Etkoehn
 

2. it is usable, just do not expect "racing" accelerations, plasma works even with quite low accelerations for anything thicker than 2mm

I will be cutting a lot of 18 gauge so it will be half the thickness of 2mm  Do you think a 27kg gantry will do alright cutting that? I am using nema 34 4.2 amp. 4:1 ratio and then driving with a 20 tooth 12mm OD

4. Not usually if the box is big enough, using a fan help during summer time, fan on the bottom of the case pushing air in, exhaust on the sides or bottom.

I am using an old metal cabinet plenty of room... even for any upgrades If i decide to later. I still need to get some fans, but I did come across some real nice fan guards/grills that I will be using.

To be on the safe side, use 2 of HGR15 rails, 
 

I think I will use two rails then. and try to shave down weight other places.
Last edit: 20 Dec 2023 00:25 by Etkoehn.
The following user(s) said Thank You: tommylight

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20 Dec 2023 00:32 #288632 by tommylight
First, sorry but i will never learn gauges, they are backward.
I can do inches, troy ounces, yards, feet, square feet, miles, nautical miles, air miles, etc in my head easily as they are related to something somehow, gauges are not.
Although i have a hunch it is inch/gauge so in this case 25.4/18=1.4mm ? So is it? :)
Moving on, yes you can use 27kg gantry to cut 1.4mm (if that is 18 gauge) thick material but you will have to lower the cut current and adjust the cut speed accordingly. The main issue will be with piercing, not cutting, so no pierce delay at all.
Here is a 23KG gantry cutting at 12m/m (472 inches/minute) using two Nema 23 steppers with 1:3 reduction.
Nema 23 with some reduction would have been better only due to vibrations.
As for cabinet, 60 degree C is all good, above it it tends to cause issues with the PC as usually the processor will be nearly 100 and might start to throttle down. The rest will be usually OK up to 70 or more, i have seen 86 and everything was working just fine, but that is pushing it to far.

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