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Hakan
Hakan

16 Feb 2025 05:27

Replied by Hakan on topic THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

Category: Plasmac

I looked through the EL5101 docs and - did I get it right? - it measures frequency by counting number of edge rises during a 10 ms window? Could be where 10 ms comes from. Seems low resolution also, frequency will be in steps of 100 Hz.

Sandro
Sandro

15 Feb 2025 21:32

Replied by Sandro on topic THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

Category: Plasmac

Yes, it consistently appears to be around 10ms.

However, I believe I’ve found a workaround. I have noticed, that the EL5101 outputs the encoder period which is an absolutely stable signal. So I wrote a custom component to calculate the frequency based on it, which in turn can be used in PlasmaC. In the attached Halscope screenshot, you can see the troublesome frequency signal with drops from the EL5101 in red, the encoder period in cyan, and the calculated frequency in green.

loadrt period_to_freq   names=period_to_freq-thc
addf period_to_freq-thc servo-thread
net measured-period-thc lcec.0.EL5101_THC.enc-period => period_to_freq-thc.period-in
net plasmac:arc-voltage-in <= period_to_freq-thc.frequency

PCW

15 Feb 2025 14:49 - 15 Feb 2025 14:56

Replied by PCW on topic THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

Category: Plasmac

Is this possibly a EL5101 bug or latency /communication issue?

Is the dropout always 10 ms? If so that more suggests a bug or
communication/driver problems than electrical issues.

Sandro
Sandro

15 Feb 2025 11:44 - 15 Feb 2025 11:50

Replied by Sandro on topic THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

Category: Plasmac

I have redone the cabling between the EL5101 and the THCAD300. Unfortunately I was unable to measure the min/max voltage on the 5V supply from the EL5101. So I have switched to a dedicated 5V power supply to power the THCAD and used a new twisted pair of cables to connect the differential signal to the A+ and A- phases of the EL5101.

Unfortunately the issue persists. Drop length is about 10ms and seems to be at random intervals. Frequency goes from 1824 Hz at 0V down to about 25 Hz. Divider ratio on the THCAD is currently at 1/64.

The second EL5101 with the THCAD2 for ohmic sensing behaves the same way. However for ohmic sensing, the drops are not really critical and and functionality is still given. Different story for the THC which raises the torch on every drop.

rodw

11 Feb 2025 20:32

Replied by rodw on topic Mesa with Ethercad connection

Mesa with Ethercad connection

Category: Driver Boards

As the OP said, the missing piece in an Ethercat build is affordable encoder inputs for spindles. There are very few options outside of Beckhoff. I have some Beckhoff I/O but have not bought an encoder module.

There are a few I/O modules generally with 16 inputs and 16 outputs. There must be a cheap Ethercat chip they use. Examples from Deiwu and Rtelligent (I have both). Rtelligent includes some PWM outputs.

But lets face it, the main reason one goes with Ethercat is to use Ethercat servo and stepper drives so the Mesa cards with analog and step/dir interfaces are not particularly useful any more.

Using Ethercat drives reduces the need for I/O because most drives have some included I/O for home and limit switches and brakes etc. These can also be used for general I/O.

Whilst using hm2 over Ethercat should improve network latency issues with Mesa cards due to the more efficient transport layer, adding the additional complexity of Ethercat just for this does not make sense to me.

Perhaps Mesa could look at an Ethercat 7i92 equivalent that supported some existing daughter cards to give I/O, encoder, counters for MPG and analog voltage by adding a THCAD2 with its Calibration data stored in Ethercat registers? Perhaps this card would include some smart serial interfaces too?

Anyway, I'm gonna go back to fiddling with Ethercat internal homing now... After a long hiatus, I got my homing lab working last night and homing commenced as it should. I just have to work out why it didn't respond to the homing switch when it came on...

Boogie
Boogie

11 Feb 2025 18:09

Replied by Boogie on topic Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Category: Plasma & Laser

THCAD-2 two pieces just ordered. Regarding CPC port: are we talking about Hypertherm Part Number ‎428653?

Boogie
Boogie

11 Feb 2025 13:52 - 11 Feb 2025 14:33

Replied by Boogie on topic Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Category: Plasma & Laser

And will go with two THCAD-2 as ohmic sensor looks like very good approach. For the moment i'll stick to the hand held Duramax torch i have.

rodw

11 Feb 2025 12:13

Replied by rodw on topic Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Category: Plasma & Laser

The thcad2 replaces both the thcad 10 and thcad 5. The manual will tell you how to configure it. Go for a 200 volt range and you will be sweet for the 45XP

Personally, I would buy the cpc interface. There is a trick you can do with a short piece of fine wire inserted into the torch connector to permit CNC firing of the machine torch Search for it.

Boogie
Boogie

11 Feb 2025 12:07

Replied by Boogie on topic Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Category: Plasma & Laser

Thank you rodw.

I don't have THCAD yet and i just saw on Mesa website only THCAD-2 is available:( The rest is out of stock - looks like i'll have to go with THCAD-2 anyway and deal with voltage dividing somehow. My Hypertherm 45 XP is not equipped with CPC apparently, the second source as well. Buying CPC now is not and option so i will need to look at THCAD-2 if i can add some resistors to extend the range.

rodw

11 Feb 2025 10:18

Replied by rodw on topic Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Converting a THCAD-300 to a THCAD-10?

Category: Plasma & Laser

My graph in the plasma primer in the linuxcnc docs is the only real data I have seen about volts over distance.
linuxcnc.org/docs/stable/html/plasma/plasma-cnc-primer.html
It showed for the specific machine, it was 7.53 volts per mm with 99.4% confidence over 16000 readings. So a 2 volt range is a good target to get your 0.01" which is realistic
You voltage will be around 130-150 volts when cutting. I have run a 300 v full scale and also 170 to 200v an I never saw any difference. I would just use your thcad 300, seeing you have it, set it to 1/32 frequency and make some parts.

kn612
kn612

10 Feb 2025 22:54

Servo Driver Plasma Retrofit was created by kn612

Servo Driver Plasma Retrofit

Category: Plasmac

I am looking for some guidance on switching my plasma table from hypertherm controls with servo motors/drivers to linuxcnc. I have retrofitted my other plasma table that uses steppers to qtplasmac/mesa hardware, however the servo wiring is beyond me. The current hypertherm controls cuts fine, however the microedge has been spontaneously rebooting and unreliable.I have a thcad 5 and thcad 10 already on hand, after reading around, I believe a mesa 7i97t is what I need? Either way I am unsure of the wiring that needs done. I apologize for my incompetence and am willing to learn. I really like the qtplasmac interface over hypertherms softwareI attached pictures of the hardware. Would it be possible to leave the pcb that the servo drivers connect to on the back panel and replace the microedge controller with some mesa hardware and the needed power supplies and linux computer?

PCW

10 Feb 2025 19:08

Replied by PCW on topic THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

Category: Plasmac

I would check the signal at the EL5101, it sounds like an electrical issue.

Is the EL5101 setup and wired for the THCADs differential signals?

(a THCAD cannot output a 0 frequency unless it has it's input polarity reversed or lacks proper 5V power)

Sandro
Sandro

10 Feb 2025 17:32 - 10 Feb 2025 17:33

Replied by Sandro on topic THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

Category: Plasmac

Hello everybody,

Thank you all very much for your inputs and recommendations. I can test most of them next weekend and report back to you.

I've tested the THCAD2 with a divider ratio of 1/128 and 1/64 already, but I can't remember if I also checked with 1/32. Will definitely try again.

I will also check the cabling again and the stability of the 5V power supply.

I think the frequency does not go to absolute zero but to less than 1 Hz (guess). I will also have a closer look at the duration of these drops. The EL5101 seems to provide some values for underflow, overflow and also the possibility to filter the frequency.

Warning: Spoiler!

static const lcec_pindesc_t slave_pins = {
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_IO, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, ena_latch_c), "%s.%s.%s.enc-index-c-enable" },
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_IO, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, ena_latch_ext_pos), "%s.%s.%s.enc-index-ext-pos-enable" },
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_IO, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, ena_latch_ext_neg), "%s.%s.%s.enc-index-ext-neg-enable" },
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_IN, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, reset), "%s.%s.%s.enc-reset" },
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, inext), "%s.%s.%s.enc-inext" },
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, overflow), "%s.%s.%s.enc-overflow" },
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, underflow), "%s.%s.%s.enc-underflow" },
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, latch_c_valid), "%s.%s.%s.enc-latch-c-valid" },
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, latch_ext_valid), "%s.%s.%s.enc-latch-ext-valid" },
{ HAL_BIT, HAL_IO, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, set_raw_count), "%s.%s.%s.enc-set-raw-count" },
{ HAL_S32, HAL_IN, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, set_raw_count_val), "%s.%s.%s.enc-set-raw-count-val" },
{ HAL_S32, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, raw_count), "%s.%s.%s.enc-raw-count" },
{ HAL_S32, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, count), "%s.%s.%s.enc-count" },
{ HAL_S32, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, raw_latch), "%s.%s.%s.enc-raw-latch" },
{ HAL_U32, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, raw_frequency), "%s.%s.%s.enc-raw-freq" },
{ HAL_U32, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, raw_period), "%s.%s.%s.enc-raw-period" },
{ HAL_U32, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, raw_window), "%s.%s.%s.enc-raw-window" },
{ HAL_FLOAT, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, pos), "%s.%s.%s.enc-pos" },
{ HAL_FLOAT, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, period), "%s.%s.%s.enc-period" },
{ HAL_FLOAT, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, frequency), "%s.%s.%s.enc-frequency" },
{ HAL_FLOAT, HAL_IO, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, pos_scale), "%s.%s.%s.enc-pos-scale" },
{ HAL_FLOAT, HAL_IO, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, freq_scale), "%s.%s.%s.enc-freq-scale" },
{ HAL_FLOAT, HAL_IO, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, freq_filter_gain), "%s.%s.%s.enc-freq-filter-gain" },
{ HAL_FLOAT, HAL_OUT, offsetof(lcec_el5101_data_t, freq_filtered), "%s.%s.%s.enc-freq-filtered" },
{ HAL_TYPE_UNSPECIFIED, HAL_DIR_UNSPECIFIED, -1, NULL }
};

I was also thinking of some moving average to filter the drops. But I don't know how I could implement this. Writing a custom HAL component?

rodw

09 Feb 2025 22:36

Replied by rodw on topic THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

Category: Plasmac

Hakan wrote:
Maybe the EL5101 can say when it doesn't have a good reading, or something along those lines. Obviously check cabling.
It seems you get zero Hz as frequency, that's a unique signal, THCAD always give some hundred/thousand of Hz.
Maybe some hal trickery to hold the last good value while frequency is zero. An own component perhaps.

Yes, a real time component could monitor the voltage and add a delay before it drops the voltage sent to plasmac. The moving average would do something similar. Say it averaged 1000 readings ( 1 second), it would take 1 second before it fell all the way to zero.

From your halscope plot, please let me know how long it lasts for.

PCW

09 Feb 2025 22:32 - 09 Feb 2025 22:41

Replied by PCW on topic THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

THC with Beckhoff EL5101 and THCAD2 => encoder signal loss

Category: Plasmac

I would try at the THCADs 1/32 divide ratio

(The 1/1 ratio has relatively short pulse widths = 0.5 usec
which might be too short for the EL5101)

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