Plasmac install.... Windows convert from start to finish

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20 Feb 2020 10:56 #157977 by thefabricator03

Gents

The way to expand the user base and capture some of the windows users is to show how easy it is to set up.


I think you have hit the nail on the head regarding adaption for new users. But bear in mind how far Phil have come with PlasmaC. Look at any other LinuxCNC plasma config - or any config for that matter. Not another config has the documentation PlasmaC has.

Phil is a one man show ( with lots of helpful testers) and the work he has done is frankly remarkable for open source software.

I am sure Phil will continue to work on making adaption easier for new users but we need to give him time and some helpful guidance to give him a idea on where to head.

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20 Feb 2020 11:12 #157978 by phillc54
Both the Mint and Devuan ISO are brand new and not had time for debugging. I will probably put a mention of them in the PlasmaC docs down the track.
The Stretch ISO from the LinuxCNC site should have had that dirmngr fixed although I think it was intend to be used with the LinuxCNC 2.7 version that is on it. I guess the think was that only experimenters would use a non released version and unfortunately PlasmaC requires features not in the released version.
Personally I don't care too much if Windows users want to use Linux or not, I am happy just tinkering.
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20 Feb 2020 11:16 #157980 by BeagleBrainz

Gents

My point was to follow the (plasmac) instructions and see where it got me..... if there is a "better" way.... should they not be within the instructions for a Windows Numpty like myself to just follow (copy + paste into the terminal).

The way to expand the user base and capture some of the windows users is to show how easy it is to set up.

Linux has always been (and that is GOOD) and will always be a tinkers / tuners / dabblers / modders or whatever you want to call it paradise (I wish I had more time to play).

If the Mint + linuxCNC distro installs easier (or Phills Devuan) then the idiots guide should list those as options (if you have a problem with the default install route)...... but the default install route should not have any issues or windows users browsing for a change from Mach3, Mach4, UCCNC, whatever CBA with much more than click+click + copy paste ..... setup done....


Linux\Unix has about a 67% share of webservers on the internet. So it's way more that what you describe.

The Linuxcnc guys have debian images with Linuxcnc up and ready to go. How much would a windows install disc with your cnc controller setup be worth ?

You chose to go the Mint/self install route, when other options are available. It's like building your own car and only ever ridden a push bike. After that it is a pretty easy setup.
Now don't go complaining about Linux being hard to use, how hard was it to learn to use Windows, you aren't born knowing how to use Windows, there is a learning curve. You can use both Windows & Linux & Mac OS with out ever having to open a terminal. But being Unix based, sometimes it is easier and faster when you know how to use the command line.
Linuxcnc is powerful, more powerful and configurable than Mach. Like all things if life to use the power you have to learn, if you were put behind the wheel of a Touring car or NASCAR how would you go ? Sure you may be able to get off the line, but after that how much of the power not just engine but braking & handling could you use ?
The way I look at it just the name having Linux in it will turn people off, well if that's their attitude so be it.
So do you want to pay for a cnc controller and put no effort to very little into it and be up the excrement water way when the excrement hits the ceiling mounted cooling device ? Or do you want a powerful software package for free, put in some effort and be able to fix things.
As you have seen there are a great selection of guys who want to help and see you up and going.
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20 Feb 2020 13:16 #157994 by rodw
I think Phill summed it up. Nobody cares if you use LinuxCNC or not. Its open source. You use it or you don't. We don't carea about winning market share as we have nowhere to even bank the money!

Its interesting to review the history of Mach and Linuxcnc. They both originated from the same US government sponsored project. The founders of Mach went with Windows where as Linuxcnc stayed on Linux.

So Mach ran into troubles with the increasing non-real time nature of their chosen OS and were only able to solve that by moving the real time motion controller onto some emasculated external controllers (like ESS) with embedded CPU's running at a paltry 3 mHz or so.

LinuxCNC decided that if they could get their hands on a real time version of Linux, then the motion control could remain in the PC which had exponentially more resources in terms of processing power, execution speed and memory. This was a lot harder path to follow than what Art chose for Mach. Its still hard today to set up LinuxCNC but a lot easier than it used to be. Its up to the user to decide if the long term benefits of the superior motion control platform outweighs the short term pain of configuration a complex and enormously powerful system. There are a number of commercial companies believe it is. The architecture of the system is amazing and the way we can write components and embed them in the system as if it was a native system component is really gob smacking once you get into it. Then there is an amazing array of hardware that can work with it.

The thing is there is so much more flexibility possible with LinuxCNC. It can drive much more complex machines and can easily handle the retrofit of a machining centre or large router. Those that try that with Mach invariably end up with a basic system with many of the professional features stripped out of it which devalues the machine. With LinuxCNC, you can generally fully implement every feature of the original machine.

So its not surprising that those of us who have made that investment to get over the startup learning curve are never likely to adopt a system that is not real time.

So lets face it Robert, you came within 6 minutes of getting a working system up and running so don't give up now. We all want to see you to succeed.
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20 Feb 2020 13:28 #157997 by robertspark

Gents

My point was to follow the (plasmac) instructions and see where it got me..... if there is a "better" way.... should they not be within the instructions for a Windows Numpty like myself to just follow (copy + paste into the terminal).

The way to expand the user base and capture some of the windows users is to show how easy it is to set up.

Linux has always been (and that is GOOD) and will always be a tinkers / tuners / dabblers / modders or whatever you want to call it paradise (I wish I had more time to play).

If the Mint + linuxCNC distro installs easier (or Phills Devuan) then the idiots guide should list those as options (if you have a problem with the default install route)...... but the default install route should not have any issues or windows users browsing for a change from Mach3, Mach4, UCCNC, whatever CBA with much more than click+click + copy paste ..... setup done....


Linux\Unix has about a 67% share of webservers on the internet. So it's way more that what you describe.


This is what I wanted to try to avoid..... a measuring contest.....

It seems like you are missing the point.... the point was:
a) follow the instructions given in the plasmac documentation to install a working installation
b) see how easy / idiot proof it was.

whether you want other users to try plasmac or not is not really important to me, I was simply trying to follow the instructions and it should "just work"..... that is what most people expect these days

www.plasmaspider.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29831#p180258

Yes its not the easiest to get going but Linuxcnc is a lot easier to get going today than when I started 3 years ago. You can just download an ISO, burn to a USB stick with win32diskimager and install it in half an hour, update to master branch via the Synaptic control panel and plasmac is there ready for you to install on live hardware as its part of the core distribution. Sure you might stuff up a few times but you will solve all the problems if you just read the docs and then ask for help if it still a problem.

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20 Feb 2020 13:38 #157998 by BeagleBrainz
The main problem from what you were saying was being able to establish a connection and download from github.
That's not the fault of the instructions, it seemed to be an unresolved issue at your end (I am not blaming anyone). Rod and myself both have tried a connection to github and found no issue.
A lot of us will work out a way to do something, try it a couple of times then post a HOWTO. It's not just theory, we test before we let it lose.

I wasn't getting into a measuring contest, you made a false claim regarding Linux, I just wanted to correct that. The Linux kernel and the GNU software that go with it to create a "Linux System" is mature and used in the industry. A webserver is something people can relate to. Linux is just not for neckbeards in their mother's basements who spend their time flaming others, generating memes and spending time on 4chan.

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20 Feb 2020 14:57 #158008 by snowgoer540

I think Phill summed it up. Nobody cares if you use LinuxCNC or not. Its open source. You use it or you don't. We don't carea about winning market share as we have nowhere to even bank the money!


I'm curious on that front... How does CandCNC charge for the module they place on top of LinuxCNC? I dont understand how that is allowed. Furthermore if it IS, why doesnt Tormach do similar for PathPilot?

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20 Feb 2020 15:41 #158011 by tommylight

I'm curious on that front... How does CandCNC charge for the module they place on top of LinuxCNC? I dont understand how that is allowed. Furthermore if it IS, why doesnt Tormach do similar for PathPilot?

Don't know about Candcnc as i never dealt with them ever.
But i know Tormach sells PathPilot for 35$ on a USB, and that is very good value and you get a nice GUI with it.

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20 Feb 2020 15:56 #158016 by snowgoer540

I'm curious on that front... How does CandCNC charge for the module they place on top of LinuxCNC? I dont understand how that is allowed. Furthermore if it IS, why doesnt Tormach do similar for PathPilot?

Don't know about Candcnc as i never dealt with them ever.
But i know Tormach sells PathPilot for 35$ on a USB, and that is very good value and you get a nice GUI with it.


Well, according to them, they sell you the USB stick, because it was cheaper than maintaining a server to hand out the upgrades. The software just happens to come on it as they are not allowed to charge for it per the LinuxCNC licensing agreement...

But I wholeheartedly agree. Their GUI is really nice, and intuitive. Plus they've given back to the LinuxCNC project by fixing portions of the main code they find errors with.

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20 Feb 2020 16:33 #158025 by robertspark

The main problem from what you were saying was being able to establish a connection and download from github.
That's not the fault of the instructions, it seemed to be an unresolved issue at your end (I am not blaming anyone).


I could not see what the problem was at my end.

took a fanless PC with two SSD's within it.
set the bios to boot via usb stick
setup the wifi password and connection
Installed the linuxcnc iso on the first drive
booted it
opened a terminal and copied and pasted the strings into the terminal + pressed enter

and no go in both instances / variations.

I have just had a thought typing the above out...... our router is set to block porn, gambling and lottery sites etc.
(its a default setting + I've never had the need to turn it off + we have young children)
community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Articles/Tal...verview/ta-p/2205260

To be fair I don't know what / how it blocks stuff....

I wonder if it may not be happy with something?

[I've used git before many times for the raspberry Pi (and quite a few other variants I have PI3B, Pi3B+, Tinkerboard, TinkerboardS, beaglebone green, ) setting up Tuner Studio as a vehicle dashboard application and custiomising / streamlining those linux distros to boot as fast as possible to just run 1 application within a few seconds of starting the dashboard application .... never had an issue with any of those git accesses ]

I'll try it through my 4G phone as a wifi hotspot later and see what happens.

+ happy to try a wired ethernet connection too (normally my cnc machines are always offline, and just feed them memory sticks of gcode).

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