QTPlasmaC - Skipping Probing

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23 Dec 2022 22:15 #260180 by snowgoer540

The Ohmic probe is not tripping.


Sorry, I didn't know you already checked the ohmic input with the halscope, during cutting.

Machine computer is air gapped and is not able to connect to the internet so I can't download any screen recorders.

Perhaps you could take a video of the screen with your phone, and/or one of the table running, and upload them to youtube?

Without seeing a video or a schematic or anything, it's just guessing on our part. You have to help us help you.

Your g-code runs fine over here, so what I can tell you definitively is it's something specific to your table/setup/wiring, etc. Just trying to help you get there.
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23 Dec 2022 22:53 #260184 by Sushi
Replied by Sushi on topic QTPlasmaC - Skipping Probing
I appreciate you guys trying to help, but I'm not getting anywhere. Halscope shows me nothing, it's just blank. I can't upload a video to this forum, send me your email address and I can email it to you. This is very aggravating because it worked fine, until it didn't. Did I fry my 7i96s? Or my THCAD05? Because that's what I'm leaning towards.

It's supposed to just automatically probe before every cut? Where's the parameter? 

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23 Dec 2022 23:29 #260189 by tommylight
Does QtPlasmaC have IHS skip?
Is it set to 0?

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23 Dec 2022 23:50 #260191 by Sushi
Replied by Sushi on topic QTPlasmaC - Skipping Probing
My version has IHS Skip and it is set to 0.

@Snow, I couldn't get anything on halscope, everything is dead. I went to Halshow and got the answer you were looking for. In Halshow, not halscope, you can see when a bit trips, this is literally what I was looking for (that and a more complete list of parameters, that would be nice). I clicked on the input bit for probing and the digital screen LED was red, during probing it would change states, or it wouldn't but the machine would still respond to the probe cycle (so I knew it just happened so fast the screen wouldn't register). We good. When I ran the program I found exactly what you thought was going on, the bit was coming on whilst the machine was cutting. There's some EMI that is enough to trip the bit. Here's the other issue, when the machine is done cutting the bit stays on for a couple minutes, this is why I couldn't test the probing, because it thought it was already touching the work.

I need to figure out if I can make a circuit that will bleed off the excess voltage or figure out why 24v is getting to the probing input pin when it's not probing. It might not be EMI, could be water, could be dust, could be water mixed with dust. It could be a lot of things, thank you for getting me on the right track.

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24 Dec 2022 00:43 #260202 by Sushi
Replied by Sushi on topic QTPlasmaC - Skipping Probing
I wish this forum would let me attach pictures.

Here's what I found. That bit staying on is triggered by the arc specifically, as I think we all expected. As it's cutting the bit will flicker on and off. By the time it's done cutting the bit stays on for a couple minutes after it's done cutting. I checked the voltage between machine ground and the probe input pin and I have about 4.3v that will slowly bleed off. Maybe it's a machine grounding issue turning my water table into a big capacitor storing just enough voltage to trip that bit. 

The water table is insulated from the machine frame right now. This wasn't really intentional, more a cause of what I built this out of. The water tank literally made of old real estate for sale signs (I sell real estate and these were free). Is there any issue with grounding the tank/frame to the machine ground? Either the negative lug on the 24vdc power supply or the 120vac ground from the wall? Is there any potential issues with the plasma cutter "ground" clamp being connected to either of these? My other option is to add resistance at the probing input pin. If I reduce the probing pin voltage enough at that pin that errant 4.3vdc shouldn't have enough oomph to trip that bit. Thoughts?

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24 Dec 2022 15:52 #260244 by snowgoer540

Thoughts?

First and foremost, plasma voltage is dangerous, and aside from the shock/human risk, there's the risk of catching your wiring on fire, etc. As I said earlier, plasma is a fickle beast. It seems simple at first, but it really is not.

Having said that all of the proceeding advice (and really any advice on this forum) is "use at your own risk", etc. Disclaimer over :)

I have experienced and have helped a friend with a similar "capacitor" effect back when we did ohmic sensing with a THCAD. Ultimately we changed over to the relay method from the attached PDF, which solved our issues.

Also of note, it's highly recommended to use an isolated 24v power supply for ohmic probing (Meanwell HDR-15 which is class II isolated (note there is no ground hookup) data sheet attached).
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24 Dec 2022 16:12 #260246 by Sushi
Replied by Sushi on topic QTPlasmaC - Skipping Probing
This is very helpful. I have a spare 24v power supply from an old 3d printer, extra relays and a bunch of 1N4001 diodes from my Megasquirt projects laying around. I might give this a whirl today.

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24 Dec 2022 16:58 #260250 by snowgoer540
Just keep in mind, the power supply was specific as it is class 2 isolated. Forget a ground clamp and the plasma cutter WILL seek a path to ground another way (I attached my power source ground permanently to the table and ran a workpiece lead from there for insurance when I forget). Don’t let that be through your other wiring. The SSR relay was chosen specifically as well.

Though the ohmic wire is only hooked to the plasma cutters shield, a significant amount of voltage travels through it while cutting.

Be mindful of these types of things.
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24 Dec 2022 22:05 #260268 by rodw
Replied by rodw on topic QTPlasmaC - Skipping Probing
The capacitor voltage bleed off with a THCAD is usually because you are switching the mains power to the Ohmic power supply. Do not do this, Hardwire it in so it is always on. It takes a long time for voltage to dissapate from a AC to DC power supply... I learnt the hard way...

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24 Dec 2022 22:21 - 24 Dec 2022 22:23 #260269 by snowgoer540

The capacitor voltage bleed off with a THCAD is usually because you are switching the mains power to the Ohmic power supply. Do not do this, Hardwire it in so it is always on. It takes a long time for voltage to dissapate from a AC to DC power supply... I learnt the hard way...


OP is not using a THCAD. Also, the attached diagram a few posts back shows the relay on the DC side of things.

At the time I had issue, I was not switching anything, aka not using the optional relay in the diagram from the old plasma primer (which is seemingly out of date based on your tip). The relay was added per the diagram attached in this thread to mitigate that.
Last edit: 24 Dec 2022 22:23 by snowgoer540.

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