New Guy,Best way to setup a Automatic Tool Changer

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12 Jul 2014 11:09 #48682 by sspeed33317
Hello,
Just bought a old Haas VF1, its actually still on the truck on the way here.

Ive searched all over about setting up a tool changer to work with LinuxCNC.

This tool changer uses a sliding Carousel , geneva mechanism and the Z axis to drop and pickup the tool.

Which method will work with this type of tool changer? The Z axis needs to move, from what I found Classic Ladder
will not work.
Then I read about remapping gcodes.

I have a lot to learn, any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

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12 Jul 2014 19:42 - 12 Jul 2014 20:15 #48690 by BigJohnT
I have a BP Discovery 308 with a similar setup for tool changing but due to spindle orientation I can't convert it unless I replace the spindle drive and motor. The basic steps mine takes is:
  1. Z up to tool change position
  2. Orient spindle
  3. Extend turret
  4. Release draw bar
  5. Raise Z to clearance position
  6. Index Turret to next tool
  7. Z down to tool change position
  8. Pull back draw bar
  9. Retract turret

The fly in the ointment for me is orient turret. If you can do that your good to go and Classicladder can do the entire tool change.

www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/man/man9/orient.9.html

JT
Last edit: 12 Jul 2014 20:15 by BigJohnT.

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12 Jul 2014 20:39 #48691 by tenaja
Unless your toolholder design requires it, Isn't tool orientation really just optional? If all of your tools have clearance and you aren't using tools that require orientation (like a very long fly cutter) you should be able to skip that step.

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12 Jul 2014 23:29 #48693 by sspeed33317
I believe the spindle uses a orient pin to mechanically stop the spindle in the correct position
it has only one detent so it will always stop in the same spot.
It has a switch on it that trips when the pin is extended into the slot. I guess that is used to command
spindle stop. and to let the controller the pin actually tripped.

As long as Classic ladder can be used to move the Z into safe and pickup position
it should all work, just have to study the programming commands...

for the bp308, a guy who uses mach3 actually engages a stepper motor to orient his. Maybe works with linuxcnc ??
here



thanks.

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13 Jul 2014 06:16 #48701 by andypugh

sspeed33317 wrote: Which method will work with this type of tool changer? The Z axis needs to move, from what I found Classic Ladder
will not work.


The problem is not that there isn't a way to handle toolchangers, it is almost that there are too many ways, and some machines might need a combination.

Having recently looked at remap, there is a lot you can do there, and all the info you might need is available. In HAL you only get a pocket and a tool number. And Classic Ladder runs in HAL.

If you need to move the axes then a remap style thing is how I would do it. Look at the rack toolchanger in the remap sample configs to see what is available.

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13 Jul 2014 06:18 #48702 by andypugh

BigJohnT wrote: I have a BP Discovery 308 with a similar setup for tool changing but due to spindle orientation I can't convert it unless I replace the spindle drive and motor.


Have you tried? I managed some degree of alignment with a direct drive and a 20-year-old VFD on a normal AC motor.

With a more modern VFD, and especially in the lower gears, I reckon it could be done.

Surely the machine worked as sold, so what is the actual problem?
The following user(s) said Thank You: tivoi

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13 Jul 2014 18:21 #48717 by BigJohnT

andypugh wrote:

BigJohnT wrote: I have a BP Discovery 308 with a similar setup for tool changing but due to spindle orientation I can't convert it unless I replace the spindle drive and motor.


Have you tried? I managed some degree of alignment with a direct drive and a 20-year-old VFD on a normal AC motor.

With a more modern VFD, and especially in the lower gears, I reckon it could be done.

Surely the machine worked as sold, so what is the actual problem?


It's not a VFD, it is a Siemens servo drive. I've done the research on using a VFD on the spindle motor and that was a bust due to the type of motor it is which I forget at the moment. As long as I can keep the DX-32 control running I will. I wanted to convert it to LinuxCNC so my whole shop was using LinuxCNC but in order to do that I have to swap out the spindle motor and add a VFD. This is the machine that gave me fits for a year tripping the drive out until I replaced my 15 HP used 3-phase motor RPC with 20hp purpose built for a RPC idler motor.

JT

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13 Jul 2014 18:37 #48719 by andypugh

BigJohnT wrote: It's not a VFD, it is a Siemens servo drive.

I guess that LinuxCNC could probably control that drive?

As long as I can keep the DX-32 control running I will.

Did you miss my mention that the skip at work was full of Sinumeric controllers and 20kW drives the other day? (all gone now)

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13 Jul 2014 18:46 #48720 by BigJohnT

andypugh wrote:

BigJohnT wrote: It's not a VFD, it is a Siemens servo drive.

I guess that LinuxCNC could probably control that drive?

As long as I can keep the DX-32 control running I will.

Did you miss my mention that the skip at work was full of Sinumeric controllers and 20kW drives the other day? (all gone now)


I'm guessing it can control it as well, but I'm not smart enough to figure it out.

JT

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14 Jul 2014 00:39 #48736 by sspeed33317
Thank You,

I may try to run the HAAS control for a while, I was told it works just can transfer programs into it, so everything has to
be hand programmed, may just need a Com board.

Luckily its old.. only has a 7.5 hp spindle so I may be able to run it off a phase converter..

It looks like if I want to retrofit it I may have to use Mach3 , the guys at Machmotion already have a old VF2 running on it.

Hmm..I wonder if I could use the rack style programming and set up the toolchanger as a rotary axis so every tool has a
location.. wish it were easy to mess around with. For all it knows the thing is just dropping ad picking up a tool at a set location..

Lots to learn...

Thank You

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