Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E

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12 Sep 2017 17:50 #98894 by RotarySMP
RotarySMP replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
Thanks for the safety tip. I took a look at the caps on Sunday (with the power disconnected) , and couldn't identify any bulged or obviously damaged. I figure if I have an H Sync signal (must be somewhere around 14kHz right?) then the controller must be booted, and it is probably a monitor fail. I can then buy a CGA - VGA convertor and use the LCD monitor I already have on the CNC Lathe to get started.
Mark
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16 Sep 2017 05:32 #99023 by andypugh
andypugh replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E

RotarySMP wrote: TIt is a bit weird that the cam switching blocks have 5 cams and 5 switches, but my schematic (and all other MAHO schematics I have studied) only show 4 switches being used for the feedback.
(Edit] Woops In a different part of the schematic it shows all five with the extra one being "Mitte - Vorabschaltung" Middle permature stop?


Probably 4 data channels and a "data valid" channel.
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18 Sep 2017 08:50 - 21 Sep 2017 07:37 #99078 by RotarySMP
RotarySMP replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
Over the weekend, I received more way oil, and filled the tank, just in case I had a low level warning. It made no different to the pin 253 state, so I guess it was already off the low level switch.

I also disconnected the CGA graphics cable (19x21). The monitor response (snow and diagonal rolling) is the same regardless whether the cable is connected or not.

I used my Multimeters frequency and oscilloscope functions to check for a H-Sync on the graphic card output. <edit> I redid the measurement with a colleauge, and there may be an H-Sync signal there. My Multimeters Osci function may just have an inadequate sample rate to confirm that.

Does anyone have a Phillips 432/10 Manual, please?
Mark
Last Edit: 21 Sep 2017 07:37 by RotarySMP.
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22 Sep 2017 15:20 - 22 Sep 2017 16:12 #99270 by drimaropoylos
drimaropoylos replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
Hi, I am in the process off retrofit a maho mh600e and from the drawings RotarySMP send me (thank you for that), I have concluded that the 3 inner cams on the motors are for the machine to know when the machine reached the destination and stop the motor. The next cam is to slow down the motor when close to the middle gear so is not overshoot, it only works if 11k3 is enabled, so if we want to go to the middle gear we must enable the 11k3 to slow down the motor right before reaching the middle. The last cam is to tell the controller to go right or left to get to the middle gear. You must experiment to find the time that is needed to get from one position to the next and reverse the spindle motor if that time is passed and the position is no reached, so the teeth of the gears have a chance to engage. How is the proper way to show the ladder logic here to help others with mahos and other machines with gears?
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Last Edit: 22 Sep 2017 16:12 by drimaropoylos.
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22 Sep 2017 15:42 #99272 by drimaropoylos
drimaropoylos replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
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23 Sep 2017 09:19 - 23 Sep 2017 09:29 #99313 by drimaropoylos
drimaropoylos replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
S80, s100, s125… s4000 is the commanded speed from the hal, the left (backgear) gear is commanded first to go to the proper position. Once on the position, the second (middle) gear goes to the proper position. And then the third. If no position is reached or the gear is not passed from the middle position then the 11k9 and 11k10 toggles to help the gears to mesh



When everything is finish ok the G-ok tells the controller commanded speed is ok
The times are not tested on the machine, I will start from hi values and shorting them with tests
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Last Edit: 23 Sep 2017 09:29 by drimaropoylos.
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23 Sep 2017 20:01 #99356 by RotarySMP
RotarySMP replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
Awesome work Drimaropoylos. It must have taken you ages to work through and record the timing. Thanks for sharing this. Did you draw the ladders for all 18 gears already?

So far I have only read the docs on Classic Ladder, but haven't actively played around with it, so I am struggling to follow the ladder logic.

Do I understand that correctly that MAHO cam feedback switchs 11S1-5 / 11S6-10 / 11S11 -15 are assigned G[stage][color] in your Ladder? Would I be able to rename those 11S[n] to keep it consistant with my MAHO's wiring diagrams? You list five colors, but only four cams are output to the Phillips as far as I can tell.

The next cam is to slow down the motor when close to the middle gear so is not overshoot, it only works if 11k3 is enabled, so if we want to go to the middle gear we must enable the 11k3 to slow down the motor right before reaching the middle.

Those fourth cam status in each group (11S4, 11S9 and 11S14) are not input to LinuxCNC through the MAHO relay board, but do connect to pins 302, 304 and 306. Does that mean that the MAHO relay board slows the motor without control input?

I got my new oscilloscope, and had another look for H-Sync and V-Sync signals out of the Phillips. Nothing. there. With the help of your Ladder, my need to get the Phillips running is diminishing. I switched to toubleshooting the E-Stop chain to see if I can find out why the Hydraulic pump doesn't start.

I am getting closer to to just removing the Phillips and going straight to LinuCNC! I started setting up the PC so I can load LinuxCNC and configure the 5i25,7i77 and 7i84. Unfortunately I am having trouble getting a bootable image on the USB stick. Last time I loaded LinuxcCNC, I used Rufus, but that program now triggers my firewalls MALWare filter. I used isotosub, but it wont boot.

I've attached the modified wiring diagrams to reflect the MESA card's replacing the Phillips 432.

Mark
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23 Sep 2017 20:04 #99357 by RotarySMP
RotarySMP replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
Here are the other four modified wiring diagrams...

There is one more I still need to do (Sheet 6) once the right way to wire the Indramats axis enable switchs becomes clear.
Mark
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24 Sep 2017 15:20 #99379 by drimaropoylos
drimaropoylos replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
Hello, once make the ladder for one speed then to make the logic for the rest is relative easy. You can test the ladder logic on the pc-mesa without connect the actual machine, just use a breadboard and simulating the position of the cams with cables and switches on the breadboard.
You are right the forth cam is not connected to the controller, if 11k3 is enabled than once the forth cam is on, then the NC contact (11S4, 11S9 or 11S14) in series to the motors open and the motor gets lower voltage in series with the resistors 11r1,11r2 or 11r3
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24 Sep 2017 15:39 #99380 by drimaropoylos
drimaropoylos replied the topic: Retrofitting a 1986 Maho MH400E
I can send you all the files I have now, (I will post it once I debug on the machine) but you have to experiment with the timings, and for sure your gear box is reversed compered to mine so the left and right to the motors is reversed.
The biggest problem I had to deal with ladder is that when you enable a subroutine SR1, SR2… once you disable it (when the cam is at position), then the outputs stay on the last position they were the moment the subroutine is disabled. End when you enabled them again the items on the subroutine (timers, ext.) behave like there was no off period. I don’t know if is bug or is made to behave like this. So after a cam is at position SR8 is enabled for brief time to disable all the outputs before the next cam start to rotate.
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