Build: XZero Predator... With more teeth!
12 Jun 2019 15:17 #136744
by ihavenofish
Replied by ihavenofish on topic Build: XZero Predator... With more teeth!
I'm in Toronto.
I have suppliers. Well, all the good ones. I'm skipping over the Chinese crap that was such a problem with both quality and reliability.
Machine frame (machined aluminium part) is taken care of. I have a "new mini" and a "guitar makers special" (this modified predator). Those cost a little more than the originals cause I've gone all solid aluminium, and they will be anodised and I expect to make more than $6 profit (George cut it too close I think).
Hardware (screws and rails) you basically have 2 choices. Cheap and crap, or expensive and good. The difference is about $2000-$3000 per machine. That's a lot. George was using TBI, which is kinda in the middle - not totally crap, and not very expensive - but, also completely unreliable as a supplier. Much of the delays with xzero machines were related to ball screws and rails. I'd like to find someone else in the middle, who is more reliable. I don't have that yet.
As a result, I don't think I want to do the same type of kits he did. We are pondering "just the metal" kits for the first few. Leaving all the hardware to the customer. This may have limited appeal though.
Then the flip side is to just offer a running machine out of the box. This is pretty easy on the mini. Add in JMC servos, a DDCSV2.1 controller, Delta PSU, VFD and a small teknomotor spindle, go NSK/THK for hardware, and sell for $7000. This is more broadly appealing than a box of parts and will always deliver on time, but of course the price is about double the "cheapie" spec of a running xzero mini which sold hundreds. More machine for more money doesn't always equate to more customers
The predator is a lot more tricky cause its big. 25mm screws, 25mm rails, 400lbs of aluminium, ATC spindle. I'm not sure how to sell it. "just the metal", you are $2500-$3000. Complete, $15000+, probably closer to 20k with the ATC and delta servos. Still great value, but no hobby level anymore at all.
I have suppliers. Well, all the good ones. I'm skipping over the Chinese crap that was such a problem with both quality and reliability.
Machine frame (machined aluminium part) is taken care of. I have a "new mini" and a "guitar makers special" (this modified predator). Those cost a little more than the originals cause I've gone all solid aluminium, and they will be anodised and I expect to make more than $6 profit (George cut it too close I think).
Hardware (screws and rails) you basically have 2 choices. Cheap and crap, or expensive and good. The difference is about $2000-$3000 per machine. That's a lot. George was using TBI, which is kinda in the middle - not totally crap, and not very expensive - but, also completely unreliable as a supplier. Much of the delays with xzero machines were related to ball screws and rails. I'd like to find someone else in the middle, who is more reliable. I don't have that yet.
As a result, I don't think I want to do the same type of kits he did. We are pondering "just the metal" kits for the first few. Leaving all the hardware to the customer. This may have limited appeal though.
Then the flip side is to just offer a running machine out of the box. This is pretty easy on the mini. Add in JMC servos, a DDCSV2.1 controller, Delta PSU, VFD and a small teknomotor spindle, go NSK/THK for hardware, and sell for $7000. This is more broadly appealing than a box of parts and will always deliver on time, but of course the price is about double the "cheapie" spec of a running xzero mini which sold hundreds. More machine for more money doesn't always equate to more customers
The predator is a lot more tricky cause its big. 25mm screws, 25mm rails, 400lbs of aluminium, ATC spindle. I'm not sure how to sell it. "just the metal", you are $2500-$3000. Complete, $15000+, probably closer to 20k with the ATC and delta servos. Still great value, but no hobby level anymore at all.
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13 Jun 2019 13:32 - 13 Jun 2019 13:38 #136830
by ihavenofish
Just got numbers back.. Aluminium has doubled in price since George did them - partly thanks to dumbo, but also just generally. So more like $3500 us "just the metal".
That to me seems too much for that type of kit, no matter how nice it is. So were not going to produce that one at least for now. As a whole machine one customer at a time we might entertain.
I gotta finish mine first though!
Replied by ihavenofish on topic Build: XZero Predator... With more teeth!
The predator is a lot more tricky cause its big. 25mm screws, 25mm rails, 400lbs of aluminium, ATC spindle. I'm not sure how to sell it. "just the metal", you are $2500-$3000.
Just got numbers back.. Aluminium has doubled in price since George did them - partly thanks to dumbo, but also just generally. So more like $3500 us "just the metal".
That to me seems too much for that type of kit, no matter how nice it is. So were not going to produce that one at least for now. As a whole machine one customer at a time we might entertain.
I gotta finish mine first though!
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15 Jun 2019 15:27 #136993
by ihavenofish
Replied by ihavenofish on topic Build: XZero Predator... With more teeth!
Well, 3D printer is on the way.
Items from mouser on the way to connect my Sanyo test motor and drive for tuning.
Gotta put in a McMaster Carr order today for bolts and screws and bits that I've lost in the moving of this machine around.
Also need some 4mm nylon tubing and fitting for linear guide grease, my noga minicool mister. I'm holding off on the air and water fittings for the spindle until it arrives.
I want to put my 7i76 par port mesa card inside my PC case, where the drives used to go. this would meaning I would use the internal 5i25 db25 slot. Is it ok to use that slot ONLY and not the external one? Or is there a sort of priority to them.
Items from mouser on the way to connect my Sanyo test motor and drive for tuning.
Gotta put in a McMaster Carr order today for bolts and screws and bits that I've lost in the moving of this machine around.
Also need some 4mm nylon tubing and fitting for linear guide grease, my noga minicool mister. I'm holding off on the air and water fittings for the spindle until it arrives.
I want to put my 7i76 par port mesa card inside my PC case, where the drives used to go. this would meaning I would use the internal 5i25 db25 slot. Is it ok to use that slot ONLY and not the external one? Or is there a sort of priority to them.
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