Stepper vs. Servo Question for Turning Center

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06 Jun 2013 03:48 #35294 by Zahnrad Kopf
I'm at the critical tipping point and would like some input and advice on my choices.

I've done a few stepper based builds with EMC, years ago. All is fine there.
This will be my first turning center conversion with LinuxCNC. It is on an Emco 220P if it matters. ( I'm thinking not )
I would like your input and experiences on the decision of whether to use steppers or servos for this conversion, and this is why -

The turning center has the OEM stepper motors in it. They are 5 phase Berger Lahr steppers. I can acquire drivers for them and leave them in place, and use them with the Mesa cards I will purchase.

Orrrrrrrrr...

I also have several AMC 25A20 DC brushed servo drives on hand, and I could just buy two servos to replace the existing steppers and by appropriate Mesa cards for those. This would allow me position feedback which is appealing to me for a few reasons. The first is the obvious benefit of having positional feedback as opposed to the possibility of losing steps and position with steppers. The second is that I have not done a servo build yet and would enjoy the experience and education.

The cost of the stepper drivers vs. the servo motors is negligible. I imagine the same will hold true for the Mesa cards. The relative gains in speed from steppers to servos will also be negligible in this case, as the work envelope is small enough that it won't really have much effect. The Berger Lahr steppers ( RDM 596/50 ) are approximately 110 oz/in and the servo motors I am considering are 400 peak oz/in - 55 continuous oz/in at 60V.

I would like to purchase the Mesa cards and whichever choice from this thread in the next few days so I can get to building. So, which would YOU use, and why? Thank you.

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06 Jun 2013 03:59 #35295 by BigJohnT
If the choice between stepper and servo is anywhere near a wash servos with differential encoders win every time in my book.

Can you find DC brushed servos that fit where the steppers are?

JT

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06 Jun 2013 04:05 #35296 by Zahnrad Kopf
I'll have to buy the encoders, but yes, the costs are about the same. Yes, space isn't a concern.

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06 Jun 2013 06:06 #35301 by andypugh

The cost of the stepper drivers vs. the servo motors is negligible. I imagine the same will hold true for the Mesa cards. The relative gains in speed from steppers to servos will also be negligible in this case, as the work envelope is small enough that it won't really have much effect. The Berger Lahr steppers ( RDM 596/50 ) are approximately 110 oz/in and the servo motors I am considering are 400 peak oz/in - 55 continuous oz/in at 60V..


That means that the servos will have a great deal more torque at any significant speed.

I have a stepper-powered lathe and it is fairly adequate. The real time that I notice a problem is if I try to use a toolpost mounted drill. Anything over 10mm or so makes the stepper slip. Because this is happening with very slow movement it isn't noticeable until it is too late, either.

Look at this another way, What reason is there not to go with the servos?

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06 Jun 2013 06:31 - 06 Jun 2013 06:32 #35303 by Zahnrad Kopf

Look at this another way, What reason is there not to go with the servos?


I don't know, Andy. That's why I am asking you guys. :)
I just now tripped across these which would work, also - ( last two on the page ) www.kelinginc.net/ServoMotors.html

Some of my hesitance comes from my own ignorance - I don't know what I don't know, so don't know if it will be a PITA or not. I've actually never had to set up servos from scratch. I don't know if it's simple or complex. For instance - which encoder resolution does one want? Many things will come down to my simply being completely ignorant about WHAT to choose.

I've already ripped the old control off. The spindle motor will be out soon, as well. I have room for NEMA 23 size servos. I have five 25AT20 drives. Those will operate from 40 - 190 VDC and 12.5A continuous/25A peak. If I want to make some adapters to cantilever the servos I can put some NEMA 34 size motors in there.

I'm getting the feeling that the servos would be a better choice, functionally... I just don't know what it will take to make it all hum though....

Would this be a 5i20, 7i48, 7i37 type of deal with Mesa cards? Or would something else be better?

Thanks gents.
Last edit: 06 Jun 2013 06:32 by Zahnrad Kopf.

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06 Jun 2013 06:48 - 06 Jun 2013 06:48 #35305 by andypugh

Some of my hesitance comes from my own ignorance - I don't know what I don't know, so don't know if it will be a PITA or not.

Well, you need to tune the PID, and you will always wonder if you could have tuned it better.

Would this be a 5i20, 7i48, 7i37 type of deal with Mesa cards? Or would something else be better?.

If the drives take +/-10V then the 5i25/7i77 combo ($230) looks like a winner.
Last edit: 06 Jun 2013 06:48 by andypugh.

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06 Jun 2013 06:52 #35306 by Zahnrad Kopf

Well, you need to tune the PID, and you will always wonder if you could have tuned it better.


Ha! You've just described my whole life in one sentence.

If the drives take +/-10V then the 5i25/7i77 combo ($230) looks like a winner.


They do. Thanks, Andy.
< runs off to check Peter's website... >

What about encoder counts and the such?

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06 Jun 2013 06:58 #35307 by Zahnrad Kopf

If the drives take +/-10V then the 5i25/7i77 combo ($230) looks like a winner.


I don't see it mentioned specifically, but since you and John actually have turning centers going, will that combo allow using the spindle's encoder for threading and possible future use of positioning for live tooling?

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06 Jun 2013 07:02 #35308 by andypugh

What about encoder counts and the such?

The more the better, really. You won't be running the motors at 4000rpm, I wouldn't have thought.
The Mesa card can count encoders at Mhz.
Presumably the original steppers were 200 steps per rev, so you need some multiple of that to achieve the same resolution. (assuming direct coupling?)

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06 Jun 2013 07:04 #35309 by andypugh

I don't see it mentioned specifically, but since you and John actually have turning centers going, will that combo allow using the spindle's encoder for threading and possible future use of positioning for live tooling?

Threading definitely. Indexing is dependent on the motor more than the controller. What type of motor is it?

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