NEMA 23, weird velocity results.. need help

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20 Nov 2013 18:12 #41002 by fannlow
Attached is the driver in terminal, seems to run nvidia gt218. How do I change this?

Thanks
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20 Nov 2013 20:03 - 20 Nov 2013 20:05 #41006 by ArcEye

Attached is the driver in terminal, seems to run nvidia gt218


Not sure where you got that number from, it clearly says
Kernel driver in use: nouveau
Kernel modules: nvidiafb, nouveau


Those are open source drivers, nouveau is right one for nvidia

It might work better with the 3D driver, this covers how
help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia
but don't do anything until you know video is the problem.

You need to do the terminal latency test and see where the high figures are coming from.

It appears that you have the Intel 82801I ICH9 chipset.
There are no listings for this chipset having the SMI problem, if it is regularly spiking with no activity, the problem is likely to be something in BIOS, like fan control.

See this addition to the FAQ with a similar one I had
www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum...ency-solutions#36807

regards
Last edit: 20 Nov 2013 20:05 by ArcEye.
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20 Nov 2013 22:16 #41014 by fannlow
I did a boot to win7 x86 with default microsoft nvidia drivers and got around to 22600 pulse jitters.
Will take screenshot and check back here how to reduce the jitters in linuxCnC.

The MACH 3 shows that lower value after auto running pulse setting.
On MACH 3, the values for my motor is at vel 400mm/s & accel 80mm/s2.

The motor indeed did move much faster on my travel.
Scale is same.
Using 2 uStep, 200 steps/rev, pulley 1:1, 1.75mm/rev.

Hoping to resolve the differences in linuxCnC to get almost same speed.
I did a test to run 1000mm/s & 76.875mm/s2.
The motor ran for 2secs before stalling.
Awesomely fast, but not really manageable.

Hence I down it to 400mm/s which does stall after running for 30mins.
Temp wise is still touchable.
DIP settings to 4.20A on the driver board.
Voltage is measured around 8~13 max per motor.

Thanks

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20 Nov 2013 22:25 #41015 by fannlow
I saw the forum link you link me to, so I need to go off to my BIOS and off

1. CPU Fan (monitor & control)
2. PSU management
3. Hyper threading

Is that right?

No pre-conditions ya? As in if fan control is off, the cpu wont overheat?
So no need to be in a/c room. ;)

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20 Nov 2013 22:44 #41017 by andypugh

Hoping to resolve the differences in linuxCnC to get almost same speed.


What Base Period is Stepconf giving you? it does have a tendency to go for 100,000nS if it thinks you don't need much speed.

This rather neglects a subtle issue of step rate granularity. At 100uS base-thread you can have 5kHz or 10kHz step rates, but nothing in between.

2x microstepping and 1.75mm pitch is 228 steps per mm.
400mm/sec at 228 steps per mm =91kHz. I don't think Mach was _actually_ running the motor at that rate. As far as I can see Mach3 claims to be able to manage 45kHz but defaults to 25kHz.

At 228 steps per mm and 10kHz base thread, the maximum speed you will get is going to be 40mm/sec. But the motor is likely to actually stall on the transition from 5-periods per step to 4-periods per step, or sooner, as that is an instantaneous speed increase demand of 20%. Hard for a physical system to follow.
You can probably run a 50,000nS base thread, so that will give you 20kHz step rate, which might help if your base thread is currently 10kHz. But your fine-pitch screws probably suggest that a hardware stepper might be a good investment.
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20 Nov 2013 22:59 #41018 by ArcEye

No pre-conditions ya? As in if fan control is off, the cpu wont overheat?


You don't turn the fan off, you turn the temperature sensing fan control off.
In other words you set the fan to be on full at all times, so that there is no need to test the temperature and adjust it, that is what causes some spikes.
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20 Nov 2013 23:01 - 20 Nov 2013 23:35 #41019 by fannlow
Really good point that you mentioned.

Yes MACH3 is at 25kHz.

So to say, I will really need to up either my leadscrew or my motor to get that IPM higher.

By the way, when you asked the base period, you meant the base max when we run the jitter tests?
If that is the one, then linuxCnC is giving me 33858, while MACH3 is 22600.

At first test, MACH3 says pulse too fast, auto step-in and take over for adjustment to 22600.

For linuxCnC the base max jitters of 33858 says 22kHz ish.
Step time 3050
Step hold 0
DIR hold 35000
DIR setup 35000.

For MACH3
Step time 3uS
Step hold 0
DIR hold auto (will find out and insert here)
DIR setup auto (will find out and insert here)


Andy mentioned at 228steps/mm and 10kHz, I can get theoretical 40mm/s.
May I ask where or how can I edit this 10kHz? Or you mentioned 50knS.
Is that the same max base jitter that I have for 33858?
So change that to 5000?

This confuses me...

Also I do notice that at 33858 and above settings, I get stall when I hit

12.5mm/s @ 20mm/s2 around (3000mHz)...
This is when unloaded, jz the motor attached to housing and frame. No screws yet or couplings.

Thanks
Last edit: 20 Nov 2013 23:35 by fannlow.

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20 Nov 2013 23:07 #41020 by andypugh

So to say, I will really need to up either my leadscrew or my motor to get that IPM higher.

Or the step generator. The hardware step generators from Pico and Mesa (the cheapest option is probably this: store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=produc...e=5i25&product_id=55 ) can step 1000x faster than software can.

By the way, when you asked the base period, you meant the base max when we run the jitter tests?

No. The base period is an internal setting, I don't know if stepconf even shows you it. You can see it (and edit it) in the INI file (I think, it might be directly written to the HAL file)

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20 Nov 2013 23:19 #41021 by fannlow
I cant change ini or hal files. Everytime I do that, the stepconf for stepper throws it all away... :(

I do hear that too many uStep will actually hurt the torque?
Hmmm, still in figuring out mode...

Let me try again later or early tomorrow and screenshot both mach3 and linuxCnC and find out what differences they are making to help improve.

Thanks for all the headsup

Really appreciate it

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20 Nov 2013 23:23 #41022 by andypugh

I cant change ini or hal files. Everytime I do that, the stepconf for stepper throws it all away.


Yes, there is a point at which Stepconf stops being useful. You may be at that point.
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