Advice on component selection.

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06 Jan 2015 05:07 #54618 by andypugh

Seems like the argon drivers is good universal ones and tad bit expensive tho i might say - but sure i will prob. not swap em out for a long time anyway.


Shipping shouldn't be too bad to you either, Granite are in Finland.

There are quite a few nice AC servo motors on eBay, but make sure you get ones with either a Resolver or a Quadrature encoder. The serial encoders on Panasonic make things unfortunately difficult.

Nobody seems to want Resolvers so resolver-feedback servos tend to go quite cheaply. But Mesa do a really nice Resolver card (7i49) so servos like this:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hauser-Parker-HDX-92-...odrive-/181631944909
Might work nicely.

Just be aware that the electrical connectors can often cost more than the servo, so prefer ones you find with connectors already fitted.

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06 Jan 2015 07:56 #54625 by NeoTech
But if i use a resolver servo, would i need the Argons then?!

Guess for driving but... *not sure how it goes together really*
but reading on the Argons they use Quadrature, Step/Dir, Analog and PWM - they recommended useing PWM or Analog with Mesa cards.. So not really sure how resolves work guessing that might be why they are not as popular? =)

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06 Jan 2015 08:04 #54628 by andypugh

But if i use a resolver servo, would i need the Argons then?!


You need some form of motor drive whatever you use.

I am not sure how the Argon drives do commutation.

On my specific machine I have brushless 3-phase motors with resolvers. The 7i49 converts the resolvers to a motor shaft position in HAL which is used for position feedback by LinuxCNC.

The drives I use (Mesa 8i20) take a digital current and phase-angle value from HAL and apply that to the motor. There is a HAL component that converts the shaft position to a calculated required phase angle.

(as an aside, I bought 3 servos very cheaply from eBay, then ended up having to write the 7i49 driver, the 8i20 driver and the bldc HAL component to make them work :-)

To save me the effort, can you work out from the Argon docs how they handle brushless-motor commutation? (You will need to understand this anyway)

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06 Jan 2015 08:08 #54629 by NeoTech
Yeah i'm, reading up.. i got a hefty christmas discount so they got ordered 10min ago after talking to them. Good guys Granite.

No figure out what the hell i bought., but this is the statement they have in their desc.

Support over 97% of all the servo motors below 2 kW in the market
Synchronous AC & BLDC motors
Sinusoidal and trapezoidal commutated
SPM (Surface Permanent Magnet) and IPM (Internal Permanent Magnet) types
Brush DC motors
Linear motors
Iron core
Ironless (with external inductive filter)


I need to take a dive into the documentation anyway tho. Will get back with findings.

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06 Jan 2015 09:11 #54637 by NeoTech
These are actually quite affordable after some haggling..

www.aliexpress.com/item/servo-dynamics/314883284.html

No idea on if they use quadrature, resolver or serial tho.

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06 Jan 2015 09:28 #54638 by NeoTech
So the argons has a adapter; shop.granitedevices.com/product/38/argon-resolver-adapter
that makes it possible to handle resolver feedback from the motor directly to the driver. And then you would drive the Argons as a analog servo or with step/dir. Either way works.

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06 Jan 2015 18:54 #54647 by andypugh

So the argons has a adapter; shop.granitedevices.com/product/38/argon-resolver-adapter.


That is remarkably inexpensive. I assume it is a set of passive devices/filters that allows the drive firmware to excite/read the resolver.
The dedicated converter chips cost £20 for the bare chip, so they clearly aren't using one of them.

Before I launch into a long explanation, do you know how brushless motors work?
I made a start on a wiki page, but never finished it:
wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?BLDC

The commutation can be done in the drive or in LinuxCNC. It is typically better to do it in the drive, just because it is faster and the drive can sense more about the motor.
If you have Argons and Argons can use resolvers then that is probably better than using the 7i49 card.
But that is something to worry about if you end up with resolver motors, and not before.

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06 Jan 2015 19:00 #54649 by NeoTech
I have the basic knowhow of BLDC motors from outrunners on model planes and such. Been fiddling with creating drivers in Arduino and such for those for a while. So yeah i get the principle of commutation somewhat.

And i agree with you, having the drives doing the commutation instead of a mesa card is prob. the way to go. So im slowly realizing i could go with a cheaper mesa card setup than i thought of initially.
The Argon drives seem to be able to solve alot of the problems. just realizing th e 7i43 comes in several flavors, and there is this 7i90HD that is alot cheaper and have 3 channels.

Servo card i think i will go with the 7i48 actually. Its not in the low end but leaves room for improvements and the ability to add in extra axles when and if i get that far.

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07 Jan 2015 03:34 #54683 by NeoTech
Good ? Bad ? Not entirely sure what this latency test should put out - for being acceptable.

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07 Jan 2015 04:18 #54685 by andypugh

Good ? Bad ?


Bad :-(

You have a thread trying to run every 25uS and at least one iteration was 125uS late....

There may be things to try to improve it.

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